To feel sad I'm going to end up 'managing' another man

[twentyoneteacups]

Aware I might be setting myself up for attack by posting in AIBU for this, but here goes...

My dad's been sorting out his will recently, and adding a Letter of Wishes - things that don't go in the will itself but offer guidelines for how he'd like some other things to be handled.

One of the items in the Letter of Wishes is about his younger brother.

They come from a pretty well-off family, and this brother, my uncle, has lived his life accordingly. He recently got his first job (at 62 years old) after spending his life gambling, being funded by his mother (my grandmother), and chasing 'big deals with the Saudis' that never come to fruition.

A few years ago his 'luck' with the Bank of Mum ran out, and he's since sold his fancy Central London flat (bought for him by their parents), moved into his sister (my aunt)'s house for 2 years rent-free and then when she ran out of patience (she's a saint and takes beautiful care of everyone around her), a granny-flat in a neighbour's garden. He's got a job as a van driver and is earning now, which is good, but he's going to be in trouble when it comes to his later life.

He didn't like my mother, and so cut any meaningful contact with my dad when they got married. He's never sought any kind of relationship with me at all – contrasted with his relationship with my cousins (my aunt married 'well', so he was in their lives quite enthusiastically).

Which brings us to my dad's Letter of Wishes.

Dad has said that if I need money from his estate, I should put that need first. But if I don't, and his brother outlives him, he wants me to use the money to take care of his brother – not leaving him a lump sum (because he'll gamble it away), but to pay him a monthly stipend and cover his care.

Essentially, to make sure his brother is OK.

It's very 'my dad', wanting to take care of family no matter what, and I love that about him, AND there's a part of me that's pretty... miffed.

I've found myself repeatedly in relationships with men where I've ended up leaving because they started relying on my finances, borrowing and not paying back, expecting me to cough up for big purchases, doing the 'financial management' of our relationship for them, and this feels like a repeat version of this – but for a family member who has never taken an interest in me nor done much to take care of himself.

It's not that I want whatever money my dad leaves behind all for myself – I've worked damn hard to get to a place where I'm financially stable on my own and should be fine in the future without anything that my dad leaves me – it's more the mental and emotional load of being my uncle's financial 'carer'.

Yet again, it feels like, men get to do whatever they want, and in swoop the women (my grandmother, my aunt, and now potentially me) to do the work of rescuing and 'making it all ok'.

I feel guilty for being frustrated by this, because of course I don't want my uncle to suffer later in life - I don't want that for anyone. He's not been 'family' to me, but he is my dad's family, and I'll respect my dad's wishes, and honour his values. Heck - it may never even come to that point, but it is niggling at me.

So I guess I'm looking for either some validation for my feelings, or a good Mumsnet-style head-wobble... how does it all land with you? AIBU, or is it OK to be torn about this?

I actually think this is really unfair on you and your uncle. What if your circumstances change? Maybe you give your uncle a monthly stipend based on how much you (don't) need the money. Maybe your cousins help your uncle use this 'regular' income sensibly (maybe he rents somewhere near them for more support and turns his life around), it becomes part of his income and he is reliant on it. Then your circumstances change, you need the money. What do you do....? Potentially a pretty horrible situation to navigate.

Personally, I'd tell your dad that he needs to make provision for his brother in his will. Maybe some sort of trust set up where the administration is via your cousins?

The mix up of your inheritance that may or may not also be financial support for your uncle is messy.

I don’t think you’re wrong at all to feel the way you do about your uncle being looked after by a series of women and you having this put on you by your DF.

I understand you wanting to respect your DF’s letter of wishes while still feeling like the request is somewhat unfair. Since you say your DF would be open to a conversation about the whole situation, I would probably try that unless he’s particularly frail nowadays.

However, if what you’re after from this thread is a way to think about how much you should give your uncle given the vague wording of the letter of wishes, I would start with how much your DF currently gives. You say your uncle has been looked after by a series of women, which sounds like your DF has not stepped up. I wouldn’t be expecting to do more for your uncle than he has.

In terms of what counts as your “needs”, I would think a lifestyle of at least the standard your DF enjoys, with pension and savings in place to continue that once you retire, would be required before you could consider your own needs met. And in terms of what to give your uncle, certainly no more than would be required to sustain the lifestyle he currently has - which sounds fairly minimal. When he reaches retirement he will be on pension credit and have his housing covered, so a fairly minimal weekly top up payment would probably suffice (assuming you have a life as comfortable as your DF’s), if the amount of money your DF is leaving is large then maybe up to 5k a year (which would be about what you’d get from an 80k annuity), but not more. I’d also limit it to a maximum of 10% of the estate on the assumption that any more would need a much clearer expression of wishes. So an 80k annuity if your needs are met and the estate is over 800k after taxes.

My thinking here is that if you can put clear limits on the support you would provide and make it more clinical, it probably won’t feel as much of a burden and you don’t have to be interested in the life of a man who has shown absolutely no interest in you.

It sounds like a right pain in the arse to me. Your dad is being very kind by the sounds of it but I think you need to tell him that his kindness is ultimately to your detriment 🤷‍♀️

You could consider saying to your Dad that either he leaves his brother a fixed amount or you can’t guarantee you’ll be able to fulfil his wishes. It may mean having to step down as executor.

I would need the money, end of discussion and your ‘uncle’ can find his own way

This could be done with very very little effort on your part though..

Decide what 'fund' you want Uncle to have - stick it in an account, set it up to pay x by standing order every month. Forget about it forever more.

The difficulty comes if Uncle knows about the terms in the letter - and he may put pressure on you to hand over more than you decide is reasonable/surplus to your requirements.

So I'd speak to Dad about this, and say you appreciate the sentiment but its really only possible if Uncle knows fuck all about it (or whatever it is you actually want to do!).

Also worth pointing out that Uncle could challenge a will that cuts him out entirely IF there is any indication your Dad has previously supported him, or he can make it look like this is malicious. If your Dad leaves him a small fixed sum however, that won't work, (well he can challenge.. but he won't win!)

Family wastrel 😂😂😂

This is what I find unfair, the moral obligation you've been given to someone who is basically a stranger to you. And state it like that to your dad. What if you wanted to have a real bucket list holiday and then the guilt of your estranged uncle hanging there. I would be asking for a flat figure to give him via DD. Your dad needs to be clear

And you seem to have a wonderful relationship with your father & he’s already shared this Letter of Wishes with you, would you feel comfortable asking him if your cousins are aware of its contents?

I agree with all the other posters who have stated that it depends on whether or not your uncle either already knows or is able to find out that your father has documented this option. Not because he has any legal recourse and you’re obligated to share, but because, if he knows, you are going to be hounded with his sad sack stories and never ending “desperate needs” for money. It sounds like he will bleed you dry, if given the chance.

He is close to your aunt and cousins, is it possible your aunt has also made similar arrangements in her Will? Especially if your cousins are aware of it, if they are also aware of your father’s wishes, they may see this as an opportunity to preserve their generational wealth at the expense (quite literally) of yours. When money is on the line, people behave very oddly.

If no one else knows about this wish, I would not feel guilty at all in ignoring it. As others have pointed out, he’s not going to starve.

If you do decide to offer any funds to your uncle, set up a DD, and have very little to do with him from then on

Unfortunately it doesn't often work like that with real leeches, @Itiswhysofew

This one appears to be a gambler, and I can practically guarantee that, while he might insist "this will be the last request", he'll be straight back in touch when the next "certainty" appears - though it'll only be in his mind

If he was already taking steps to turn his life around there may be some value in helping, but from OP's account he simply expects others to enable him and the only real solution to that is a simple "no"

He can't be 'PUT' anywhere. So far as we know he competent to make his own decisions.

If the "Letter of Wishes" isn't part of the Will it will most certainly be lost.

So in essence he's leaving his assets to you but wants you to give some to his brother.

Pay someone to do it.

a financial advisor will be more than able to organize this and you wouldn’t have to think about it anymore. Plus, any issue and he/she can deal with it.

Just make sure all is in your name and make a monthly payment to whatever you need to pay.

it doesn’t have to be difficult and as it isn’t your money you will only abide the wishes of your dad.

good luck 🌺

Your father’s wishes are that you look after yourself first! End of conversation. Looking after yourself is not just financially but emotionally as well. Having dealings with said uncle will cause you emotionally distress, something your df wouldn’t want. After you inherited I would destroy the letter of wishes, that was for you and you alone. When you die your estate will pass on to whoever you decide, it will have nothing to do with your cousins, they only come into play if you pre decease your father.

the problem is that the OP thinks that her cousins (who will be executors if she dies before her father) might have also been told about the letter of wishes. They get on with spendthrift uncle and might have "views" if the letter got lost.

I would be honest with your dad and just say you don’t have enough of a relationship with your uncle to feel comfortable doing as your dad asks and can he make other plans please that don’t involve you

Meh, so you set up a a standing order for £xx per month.

If that’s the extent of your ‘care’, you’ll be fine.

I’m the first to object to women doing the wife work but in this case you’re acting as an executor with very little day to day involvement. It sounds like you had enough of cocklodgers and your dad’s request is the straw that broke the camel’s back.

I send money abroad each month on behalf of a relative and it can be annoying when the recipient doesn’t receive the funds easily, but I’m trying to find a way to automate this.

A standing order would be heaven!

This letter of wishes is your dad’s way of feeling good about “looking after” his brother and maybe even being seen to be the good guy. If he really wanted to help his brother he would have a conversation with you about how you would be prepared to help his brother. What’s the point in leaving a letter to you, his daughter, who he loves and presumably talks to regularly. Tell your dad that he needs to find another way to feel good and that you’re ok with not getting any money if your dad thinks that’s the way to do the right thing as he sees it.

Is it maybe just your dad's way of assuaging his guilt? I.e. he says they are his wishes but wink wink if you need the money then don't give any to your uncle? Can you perhaps ask your dad not to tell the Uncle about the letter or wishes as you wouldn't want the burden of expectation of dolling out cash like a cash machine to a fully grown lazy adult?

It's not about the money, it's about your time, care and thought.

Need is such an ambiguous term - and you've already said you're secure, you won't need the money. You might enjoy and benefit from it though.

If your dad wants to support his brother he needs to face that issue directly and do the thinking himself. Set up a lump sum with regular payments (released according to clear criteria) administered by a solicitor, or other disinterested administrator.

Dad wants me to put my needs first, and only if there's money I don't 'need', then to use it for my uncle.

Just make sure you “need” all that’s left to you, eg to upgrade rooms/furniture in your house, a new car, that holiday of a life time, and savings for your old age. Job done. Waster Uncle can feck orf.

which is fine and dandy provided the cousins (who get on well with uncle) don't know about the letter of wishes now. Its possible that they do as they are the alternate executors should the OP predecease her father. The scenario would be that the OP doesn't predecease her father but were told about the letter of wishes at the same time as the OP.

as i keep saying that'sfineand dandy unless the cousins, who are named as substitute executors, and get on with the uncle, also know about the letter of wishes because the father told them.....OP becomes executor,"vanishes" the letter of wishes and the cousins take this VERY badly.

This is my own view, Godmum56, and dad wouldn't even need to have told them chapter and verse ... just some comment about OP "looking after him" may have been enough

Which is why I suggested asking dad to hand the whole thing to someone else

Your dad has said if you need it, your needs come first. Decide you need it. Put it in a long term investment designed to fund the exorbitant cost of care in you old age, so you won't end up being a burden on anyone. Do this without guilt or explanation. No need to discuss it with your father or anyone else.

I would just ask your dad to leave you the amount he wants you to have, and leave the brother what he wants him to have.

This “letter of wishes” nonsense is just putting unnecessary emotional pressure on you.