To feel sad I'm going to end up 'managing' another man

[twentyoneteacups]

Aware I might be setting myself up for attack by posting in AIBU for this, but here goes...

My dad's been sorting out his will recently, and adding a Letter of Wishes - things that don't go in the will itself but offer guidelines for how he'd like some other things to be handled.

One of the items in the Letter of Wishes is about his younger brother.

They come from a pretty well-off family, and this brother, my uncle, has lived his life accordingly. He recently got his first job (at 62 years old) after spending his life gambling, being funded by his mother (my grandmother), and chasing 'big deals with the Saudis' that never come to fruition.

A few years ago his 'luck' with the Bank of Mum ran out, and he's since sold his fancy Central London flat (bought for him by their parents), moved into his sister (my aunt)'s house for 2 years rent-free and then when she ran out of patience (she's a saint and takes beautiful care of everyone around her), a granny-flat in a neighbour's garden. He's got a job as a van driver and is earning now, which is good, but he's going to be in trouble when it comes to his later life.

He didn't like my mother, and so cut any meaningful contact with my dad when they got married. He's never sought any kind of relationship with me at all – contrasted with his relationship with my cousins (my aunt married 'well', so he was in their lives quite enthusiastically).

Which brings us to my dad's Letter of Wishes.

Dad has said that if I need money from his estate, I should put that need first. But if I don't, and his brother outlives him, he wants me to use the money to take care of his brother – not leaving him a lump sum (because he'll gamble it away), but to pay him a monthly stipend and cover his care.

Essentially, to make sure his brother is OK.

It's very 'my dad', wanting to take care of family no matter what, and I love that about him, AND there's a part of me that's pretty... miffed.

I've found myself repeatedly in relationships with men where I've ended up leaving because they started relying on my finances, borrowing and not paying back, expecting me to cough up for big purchases, doing the 'financial management' of our relationship for them, and this feels like a repeat version of this – but for a family member who has never taken an interest in me nor done much to take care of himself.

It's not that I want whatever money my dad leaves behind all for myself – I've worked damn hard to get to a place where I'm financially stable on my own and should be fine in the future without anything that my dad leaves me – it's more the mental and emotional load of being my uncle's financial 'carer'.

Yet again, it feels like, men get to do whatever they want, and in swoop the women (my grandmother, my aunt, and now potentially me) to do the work of rescuing and 'making it all ok'.

I feel guilty for being frustrated by this, because of course I don't want my uncle to suffer later in life - I don't want that for anyone. He's not been 'family' to me, but he is my dad's family, and I'll respect my dad's wishes, and honour his values. Heck - it may never even come to that point, but it is niggling at me.

So I guess I'm looking for either some validation for my feelings, or a good Mumsnet-style head-wobble... how does it all land with you? AIBU, or is it OK to be torn about this?

You'll 'need' all the money for your post-retirement needs, because none of us knows what's round the corner.

This is what trusts are for. Your father could even set a trust up to give your uncle an income during his lifetime but the capital reverts to you after the uncle’s death.

You’ll always need the money won’t you. So nod and smile and brush this firmly under one of the carpets as it’ll never raise its head again. Will it!

You can either deal with it now, potentially upsetting your dad, Or leave it until you have to face it.

And then don't give him anything more than a cursory thought.

Totally agree with you.

At your uncle's age your father could look at setting something up that would provide him with a pension or similar steady income?

Don't spend the next 40 years dragged into this.

All you need to do is smile and nod: yes dad, no dad, whatever you say dad.
The letter of wishes isn't legally enforceable so when the time comes you can do what's in your own best interests.

Gosh ..he can just set it up himself where a bank/ solicitor pay the brother what's left for him x amount a month. Yes he has to pay the solicitor or bank to do this but at least done properly and removed then.
The thing is, the amounts will change, as they will take money off your dad's estate if he ends up needing care. So a solicitor will say what percentage do you want to go to your brother and then the solicitor will do that monthly .
Or if he does a trust now and pays it in full, what he wants to leave his brother, the trust can be instructed to pay for eg 200 a month until it's run out.
The only unstuck with a trust paid in full is, if your father passes in the next 7 years and his own money runs out then they will use that.
I cam understand why you don't want part in it. It's a difficult time for you amd sounds like your parents raised you well.

Urgh I hear you and you are absolutely not in the wrong. DH and I have uncles like this on both sides of the family so it’s really not unusual.

Im not sure what the sums are involved but could you perhaps pay him the interest from
one account each month and make it clear you won’t be helping him out any further, either practically or financially or bailing him out at all?

Your dad should not be putting you in this position, but you would not be bound by a 'letter of wishes' and could easily decide that a token gesture, for example a case of sherry at Christmas, was sufficient to discharge any moral responsibility to your uncle.

If you die before your dad it won't be your problem, and you've no idea what the situation will be when your dad dies. I'd be inclined to smile and nod and say you'll follow the letter of wishes (unenforceable).
If you're not comfortable with that ask your dad to set up a trust fund for his brother prior to his death - there's no indication of what amounts we're dealing with here so a percentage (1/2/5%) of the estate or £10k/£20k/£50k - whatever is suitable.

I would have an honest conversation with your dad about how this makes you feel. In reality it is impossible for you to foresee your needs, you could think you don't need something but then you become disabled after your uncle dies and it turns out that you did need it after all, you just didn't know that you were going to.

Since your uncle is presumably closer in age to your father than to you, and most people's greatest need is in the final years of their lives, it is literally impossible for you to assess your need at a time that is likely to be when your uncle needs it.

It would be different if your uncle is younger than you, in which case you could make provision for him in your will.

We can all wish. I wish I was 4 inches taller, that's not going to happen.

This is a huge can of worms, especially if other family members know about it. They could say that you don't need the money and should pass it on to the brother. Your father is creating a huge problem for you by doing this and that is very unfair on you.

Even if you proceeded and gave the brother a small sum each month, he could keep hassling you for more. I wouldn't want to live like that, being in charge of somebody else's money. Plus once its yours in your name, for tax purposes, it would be YOUR money and nobody elses and you would be gifting it away.

I agree with PP that he either leaves the money to you with no wishes, or he leaves a share to his brother to do what he wants with. He can't have it both ways.

your father needs proper legal advice on this, and if he goes ahead, he needs to set up a trust that has nothing to do with you.

For your own sanity you need to refuse to do this.

I'm going entirely off your opening post @twentyoneteacups - but if I understand the situation correctly, they are your father's wishes and don't actually form part of a legal will and couldn't be enforced, right?

If that's the situation, you tell your father while he's alive, of course you'll look after your gambler of an uncle but when your father passes away, you don't. Who is going to know??

I would feel more sympathetic to your dad's wishes if his brother's entitled behaviour was due to some learning disability or other vulnerability. However, that doesn't seem to be the case and he has just sponged off various relatives and lost all his money gambling. Him pretty much cutting off contact with your family due to his dislike of your mother would be the final nail in the coffin for me.

He absolutely needs to set a specific amount in his will, and state that if he dies first, it goes to you instead. It's not fair to expect you to work out how much is fair, etc. It's just not your problem at all, and will put a lot of stress on your shoulders during what will already be a stressful and upsetting time.

This is not very fair of your Dad. Quite apart from the stress of doing this, your own financial situation will be taxed/assessed whatever on what is in your name. If the intent is for you to use part of your father's estate for his brother, it should be in trust for his brother, with a 3rd party as trustee, or used to buy a financial instrument that will provide your uncle with a steady modest income (so he can't blow it) and maybe revert to you on his death.

Nod along with your father as no point worrying him while he's alive.
Once he dies, you WILL need all the money, (as others have said, nobody knows what's round the corner), and your uncle will get taken care of by the state.

If I were you I’d just find that actually you do need all the money for yourself so there is none for him, a letter of wishes isn’t legally binding so you can just ignore it.

As the granddaughter, daughter and sister of men who were not copers and in the 1st 2 cases fell to pieces when their wives died, and having had to pick up those pieces I fully sympathise. Your uncle has lived a totally irresponsible, selfish and improvident life and it’s not your job to manage him. If your father pre deceases him and leaves him a sum of money to be managed, get it done via a solicitor or if that’s too expensive, set up something up that is low maintenance for you ie a monthly allowance paid by direct debit. If he bullies you to release the funds, do so and wash your hands of him. And don’t feel guilty.

I would need the money for something for sure but might, give him a small amount each month, without having any involvement beyond direct debiting the money.

well possibly the cousins who are the substitute executors should the OP pre decease her dad

I know someone who put money in a trust, or annuity that gave the beneficiary a monthly stipend bc he couldn't be trusted to manage the whole amount. When he died the principle went to his kids. Honestly I'd just follow my dad's wishes and send him a small amount every month or three if you can afford it, but not get involved much in communication.

What my dad wants for me is autonomy and freedom of choice

That's very sensible of your lovely-sounding dad, @twentyoneteacups, but unfortunately I doubt your uncle will want the same. He'll want money, and whether he knows what's in the letter of wishes will depend on what dad's already said to him, no matter how cryptic - and being cryptic can often be interpreted by the speaker as "I've said nothing" because they didn't go into all the details

Even if the letter hadn't existed your uncle will still assume you've inherited and probably regard you as his next port of call - though admittedly it would have made it easier to say a simple no

Glad the thread's helped though, and I wish you nothing but the best with it

I think what your Dad has done here OP, is something to appease his own conscience regarding his wastrel brother.
He's not actually left him anything in his will but with his letter of wishes, he can tell himself that he has made provision for him in some way.
There is an element of "I'm not wasting my money on him, but when my money becomes yours, I'm OK with you wasting your money on him, should you choose to".
My concern, in your shoes, would be, that if you start sending any money to Uncle, you'll never be free of him, going by his past history.
I'd ask Dad to remove that clause from the list of wishes, given that you know about it ergo. no need to have it written down. That way, no-one will be making any demands of you in future and you are free to forget the whole thing.
Your Dad doesn't really want to give his brother anything (perfectly within his rights to make that choice) but doesn't want the guilt of his decision either.