Killer claims to be ill

[Galatine]

According to the BBC Axel Rudakubana is shouting in court that he is ill.
AIBU to say I couldn’t give a shit!

Because she wasn’t a child who had been violent many times in the past.

I think it is something to do with the way the brain develops. No personality disorder can be diagnosed before 18.

DD was long suspected of having BPD but could not be diagnosed or treated until she turned 18. Instead we were left to battle with CAMHS and social services while she made repeated suicide attempts.

When I say you cannot just "section" a child or have them admitted to in patient care for mental health, I'm speaking from experience. The resources to help these teens no longer exist.

Because the brain is undergoing alot of change, a diagnosis of psychopathy is I understand a permanent state and non changeable. You couldn't be sure until adulthood even if there were many factors pointing to it.

Happy to stand corrected if any of that is inaccurate.

So you don't think we should hold parents responsible for the actions of every mass murderer? Because that is what @EsmaCannonball thinks, which is why I asked her the question about LL's parents. Hopefully she will reply.

I think if there was clear chance for interventions that the parents didn’t take then, yes. I think it’s circumstantial.

Thank you for explaining. I hope your daughter’s been able to get the help she needs now, sounds tough for you all.

I did reply. I said I didn't think that the parents of any murderer should be harassed online. Obviously something went very wrong with Lucy Letby's upbringing for her to have turned out as twisted as she did.

I don't necessarily think he has a single straightforward mental diagnosis but he may well have a combined Psychopathic (Antisocial personality disorder)- Schizotypal Personality Disorder with a significant trauma history. The point is that he obviously has a brain that is significantly messed up and cannot feel empathy or have any compassion. Nonetheless, the more you hear, the more you just want him to be removed from society for as long as possible. He has destroyed so many lives.

Obviously I am not at all suggesting that the vast majority of people with mental illness are dangerous- as someone who has had long-term mental health treatment myself I don't believe that and nor do I want people to take it that way!

The information about AR 'escalating' when his parents tried to deny computer access in 2022 sounds as if they'd sensibly decided to prevent him having internet access. So what happened to allow him to have it again as he clearly did in order to get all the materials to make ricin two years later?

I wonder if the state services demanded they reinstate internet access, whilst at the same time giving them no meaningful support.

From what is being reported it sounds as if the parents were very much trying to stop his violent tendencies, but not getting much help. I very much hope this is looked at in the inquiry

Your personality is "formed" until you are an adult.

So if you label a teen, particularly when they are undergoing puberty, then you are labelling someone who isn't fully formed so their behaviour may change.

My experience is many professionals involved with children - excluding those who are in schools every day - have absolutely no clue about the risks of the internet.

It's similar to people expecting parents to be able to control a teenager who is physically bigger than them.

I agree teens shouldn't be labelled until they are fully adult. I actually think 18 is too young to be labelled a psychopath or similar but the symptoms can and should be treated as early as possible. At the moment, at least in my experience, that isn't happening. They are being left until their illness or disorder is too much to manage and they either harm themselves or someone else.

No diagnosis should not equal no treatment.

100%
there is absolutely no reason whatsoever why Amazon should be allowed to sell weapons. Online sale of weapons should be banned in the uk. Click and collect yes, delivery absolutely not.

The thing is, everyone’s kitchen has several knives in it, anyone could just take one

Unfortunately it'll be the parents getting it in the neck, and some just can't be bothered due to wanting a quiet life.

I'll add I'm a firm believer in there being no such thing as a quiet life in cases where parents can't be bothered to actually parent their DC....their "quiet life" will be someone else nightmare

I work as a dispatcher in the police.
the amount of reports we get about teenagers and knives is very worrying and we simply cannot deal with all of them quickly enough because we don't have the resources. some days all the jobs I have to resource relating to youth on youth reports related to information that a youth is carrying knives, have threatened someone else with a knife or have actually used a knife.

its widespread. And I'm not in Greater Manchester, London or Birmingham or another big city. I'm in the leafy Home Counties.

Oh indeed but they wouldn't be able to get machetes or zombie knives so readily. They cause so much more injury than your bog standard 8" chefs knife.

plus parents tend to know if knives go missing from a kitchen. Teens aren't carrying their mum's bread knife every day to school "for protection"

We don't know what the parents were advised by the agencies.

They may have been told to give it back to him.

Also once he got some of his own money and was over 15 then he would just buy access himself.

I can believe that.

Even when I was at school (I’m in my 20s so not that long ago) there were issues with idiots thinking they were gangsters and getting involved in that lifestyle. I grew up in a quiet, affluent area and one of these hoodrat types got stabbed outside my school. However that was seen as a shocking thing for my peers/school - absolutely unheard of, the residents were shaken, pupils didn’t want to walk around alone etc.

However I do get the impression that sort of thing is a more common occurrence now, like I feel today’s teens are much more comfortable with knives and violence and crime.

Oh I agree, but I don’t think it would have stopped this guy

If a person picks up a carving knife from home, takes it to a venue with an intent to kill, no one would notice for a while. My carving knife is longer than 8ins! Would I notice it had disappeared, immediately? No. I don’t use it that often.

The only way to limit knife carrying is to make sure DC are punished for doing so. Whatever the reason. The police need to see it as more important than other non crimes they investigate.

Trust me I'm not failing to resource knife reports because I'm more interested in non-crimes.
but if you've only got 6 officers covering an early turn shift with 17 reports handed over that you have to try and resource while dealing with emergencies with those same 6 officers.... two of which involves a teen on teen assault where a knife was shown, that report might carry less risk than the report of a woman being beaten up last night by her boyfriend where there is a domestic violence history. Or the concern for children which results in four children being taken into emergency protection and parents arrested for dreadful neglect. Abd at the same time you've got people trying to jump off bridges, shoplifters attacking security guards.
sadly I'm not a magician that can pull officers out of nowhere. The police are woefully underfunded, understaffed and over-red-taped to deal with an increasing river of things that we are being asked to do.

The police might also be doing things that are less necessary. It needs an overhaul and the police didn’t act at all here. As far as we know. Given the background that’s now out in the open, questions will be asked.

Nobody knows what the police did. On the face of the reports that have been in the media I doubt any police force would have done anything different.

1. attacked fellow pupil at school
2. assaulted dad and kicked off when internet was removed
3. carried a knife to school

im sorry to say that there are hundreds and thousands of kids doing this sort of stuff, day in, day out. What should we do with them all ? There is a positive tsunami of knife crime and parental abuse by teenagers. How do you tell the ones which are going to do something ? Do you lock all of them up in case they are the one that goes rogue ? unfortunately it's very easy to judge people's actions with the benefit of hindsight.

I do not believe for ONE second that hundreds of thousands of DC take knives into school. They do not. It’s imperative the police act when this happens. The law says it’s illegal but all we get are excuses. It requires a reordering of what is important.

Actually yes, I would put them in a secure unit for assessment. After a second “offence” if I’m rational! Currently these places are in very short supply but any DC carrying a knife needs to be persuaded not to. There needs to be other evidence that someone is likely to be dangerous but if we don’t do it, dc die. At the moment there is NO deterrent. It’s effectively nothing. So the police and SS need to be far more proactive about dc carrying knives. If dc were going to lose their liberty, the standard dc would stop doing it. Anyone getting caught after being warned would be prosecuted. It’s vital we stop passing the buck and blaming Amazon.