Killer claims to be ill

[Galatine]

According to the BBC Axel Rudakubana is shouting in court that he is ill.
AIBU to say I couldn’t give a shit!

I also thought after Lucy Letby they were going to make some defendants hear their sentence. They could make them if they wanted to.

I hope he is . Terminally.

I’m looking forward to the first “Child killer slashed in jail attack” report.

The whole thing is horrendous, and what I've read about what happened to those poor girls is awful.

But, and I know this might not be popular, I feel for him as well, because this is a massive failure by services - this shouldn't have happened.

My DS is autistic, his meltdowns can be very violent, I've written about them on Mumsnet before. There is no help. Even after I've had to go to A&E on multiple occasions. Two CAMHS assessments - both times turned down for treatment because they say his problems are due to autism. Police have told us they won't come out and that we need to do 'whatever is necessary'.

In these situations there's no magic number to call to get help or to get someone sectioned. CAMHS is completely overwhelmed.

In this case, the signs were there, help was asked for. Properly functioning services would have stood an excellent chance of preventing this, but our services are under-resourced, over-stretched and failing far too many people. And now three little girls are dead, with all that entails for their families and friends, many others are scarred for life, a young man will, most likely spend the rest of his life in prison and his parents will probably spend the rest of their lives having to watch their backs.

He carried a knife into school. What’s legal about that? We need to get much tougher in interpreting our laws. We can do way more than we do. The people who should have taken this dc out of circulation didn’t.

@Pussycat22
You have it skewed. An offender hearing a victim impact statement is not about the offender. It's about the victim and their need to express their pain and feel some closure. It's a shame you couldn't muster up the compassion to see why it's important for their need to be heard, especially when someone usually unknown to them has taken so much from them.

Have some compassion. I'm sure those parents today just wanted to be heard, whether it made a blind bit of difference to the perpetrator or not.

Sorry I misunderstood and agree totally.

@Pussycat22
I'm sorry if I was harsh this is such an emotionally charged discussion but it's so important, and I think the extreme reactions people are having is because we are all parents on here and we can just see it from all sides, victim, perpetrator, family, service employees. All sides.

If we stop discussing and acting as a result, then nothing changes. We can all cry I hope he rots in jail. But there's so much more to it.

I agree

Missionchub I take that back . I was referring to this passage in your post which is clearly referring A R. " I support convicted violent offenders hearing the result of their horrible actions. Because quite often, it's maybe exactly the thing they need to hear and there is a psychological reason they fight it. If you're so far on the left you think rehabilitation is always possible, then hearing the impact of their crimes is the start."
Get your posts right please.

Ummmmmm yes. I stand by it. I don't have the access or ability to diagnose AR with psychopathy or decide whether or not he'll benefit from hearing right from wrong or the impact of his heinous behaviour. Nor do you, so don't kid yourself.

I can hope he does, but I know for sure who needs to be heard and why the need for perpetrators to hear their sentences and victim impact statements is now a policy under discussion.

HTH.

So would you not even have any MH services for kids at all then seeing as you think parents should be able to handle every situation?

You are absolutely correct.
Most of those huge beautiful sites were sold off for development after the ‘community care’ model was adopted as cheapest best practice by hospital trusts.

Vast profits were made by a few individuals who bought previously state owned assets.

Now who’s paying again and again .
Us …
In more ways than we could have imagined.

Where would I find the court records that others upthread have referenced please? Have tried and failed…

Properly functioning services would have stood an excellent chance of preventing this

I don’t think it’s at all certain that MH support for AR would have prevented this. What would have prevented it was appropriate action from Prevent and others involved with him, eg arresting him when he had that knife on a bus rather than just taking him home.

This wasn’t an autistic meltdown. It was premeditated murder.

Yes Lord Longford. He was on Tv often being all sanctimonious about how everyone should forgive Myra Hindley. Most people did not take him seriously and couldn’t understand why he was given so much time on TV and in the newspapers, apart from the fact he was posh and a Lord. I think 99% of the population thought he was an idiot

Yesterday I was filled with rage and hate like many others, and I wished harm on him when he is in prison.
Today I am filled with a cold contempt for him, and no longer care what happens to him during those 52 long years of imprisonment ahead of him.

Of course not! I would instead report her actions to SS and the police, and beg for help once again. But I’ve been finding that getting the necessary help is nigh on impossible.

We actually have no idea how hard this man’s parents tried get help for their son, or whether they reported his behaviour to the police. If they didn’t, then yes, they should be held accountable for that.

What we do know is that that social workers asked for a police escort whenever they went to the house, because they were scared of this man. It’s very likely his parents and siblings were terrified of him.

I rather agree with the mother who didn't want to say anything about the effects on their lives because she didn't want to give AR the satisfaction. I agree that victim statements need to be before the judge, but I don't really see the need for them to be read out in court or in the accused's presence; the pressure for this to happen is driven by the press, because they're desperate to report it - witness the way they regularly doorstep victims and demand to know how they feel.

Yes, the police have a heck of a lot to answer for in this case. There were clear warnings that he was a danger to the public.

To be honest I see your point. I can imagine it’s a situation that no one wants to get involved in. Like all the signs point to the offender being violent and a potential risk, but neither social workers or police wanted to intervene. Or maybe they couldn’t intervene, ie they didn’t have enough grounds at the time to do anything meaningful.

To all the adults in contact with him, it must have been strange being around a teenager who could potentially go on to commit serious crime, but not knowing how to stop something that hasn’t even happened yet.

However ultimately his parents were best placed to discipline him, teach him right from wrong and set him on a better path. A lot of people have children, but not the means or wherewithal to actually parent their children. It’s like a box ticking exercise to procreate. Being a parent is challenging and part of that is having difficult conversations with your child. his parents could have had a huge influence on the person he became, particularly before he became too old/tall/strong for them to physically intervene and where he starts being a risk to others.

My brother's killer did the same thing, claiming he was ill, causing disruption and calling out at his sentencing, having spent a lot of his trial refusing to attend and changing statements, which meant the whole thing took so much longer than it needed to. It was very upsetting for us as a family. Our police liaison team said that it's a common tactic, either they don't want to face it, or trying to garner sympathy. Either way, it's disgusting behaviour given what he's already put these families through. I have every sympathy for them.

Don’t be ridiculous.

This is a very violent young man. He has very likely come from a very violent home.

Sorry if that offends anyone whose child is violent, but everyone’s situation is unique. In this case, questions need to be asked about the father and his background.

The pictures of the home that have been published. That seemed beyond a normal level of homely messiness. It looked chaotic and dirty (lots of dirt or mould on the living room blind). Didn’t seem like much of a family room. Apparently AR lived in there (the room).

I know this is a subjective view. I wonder if it looked like that when the various agencies visited.