AIBU to be fed up with all the Keir Starmer threads

[MissScarletInTheBallroom]

It's giving me flashbacks to 2016 when there were about 20 threads a day saying nonsense like, "AIBU to be concerned about the EU's plans to conscript everyone into an EU wide army?"

Just put a sock in it, already.

The level of debate and discussion about politics on MN is very low. But I think it always has been.

Most MN posters on politics hold entrenched, party pris views. They don’t take balanced positions and, whatever they say, they don’t generally voice genuine criticism of their own side.

When the Tories were in there were endless threads slagging them off in vitriolic terms. Now Labour are in you get the same.

There seem to be two broad effects. Many Right posters are frothers. They fall into doom-mongering very quickly. Many Left posters are so convinced of their and their favoured politics’ moral superiority that they become very self-important and they see any other view as the work of sinister forces.

It’s all quite entertaining though.

No, I don’t read the press. The press is increasingly irrelevant, as is mainstream media in general.

As for the budget… it’s not the “tax rate”, it’s the “tax-take”. It’s completely counterproductive to increase the tax rate in such a way that impairs the economy so that the tax-take falls, and any extra tax you do get is swallowed up in extra interest payments on government debt resulting (in part at least) due to falling confidence in the UK economy. It’s a lose-lose scenario.

The election was a perfect time for a reset in our taxation system; five-years to do something radical starting with the autumn budget, and address that wealth has been increasingly concentrated in the very rich over the past decade… the very wealthy horde more than they spend compared to the less well-off, and this trend has had a depressing effect on the economy. Seek to redress this somewhat, and you have your stimulus that provides the tax revenues to fund public services.

However, there are lots of vested interests (the mainstream media being one, with whatever residual power they may have) that don’t want this!

It’s been a tactic for a while, just go for bot / HQ from any Labour pp to keep the site with that view only. Getting suspended or banned might not feel worth the post after all

I completely agree with you but I'm not a fan of this government as I'm left wing. I also think they should have been more radical in their approach and fully taxed the wealthy.

The reason we have extremists coming into power, is because there's no radical solution to the status quo. The left does not provide an alternative to our current economic and structural model.

Deregulation, austerity, wealth disparity, lack of investment, fat cats, privatisation, low wages, erosion of workers rights, cheap labour..this has been going on since Thatcher. People know they're being screwed but feel powerless to bring about change.

The Tories are desperate.

100% this

Then again Labour seem to be rapidly losing ground. The only saving grace is you did it straight away so have a while left.

Has any other new gov lost support so quickly?

A comment based on first-hand knowledge.

More of these, please….

If I was a Tory-bot, that’s exactly what I’d write, as it’s arrogance and wilful refusal to meaningfully engage will only have the effect of infuriating anyone who’s not a die-hard partisan Labour supporter.

If you are actually a Labour supporter, your attitude is politically suicidal.

it seems more likely that the governments supporters are naive if they didn’t expect debate and criticism of ‘their’ parties flawed polices. Particularly, to the extent that there are any, they are poorly thought through. And that was their behaviour when they were in opposition so they can hardly be surprised.

Due to the unique way the Labour Party interprets fraud, corruption, cronyism and freebies they also lost what moral high ground they had pretty quickly. The British public don’t like being taken advantage of, and for many (the majority) that’s how they feel after 6 months.

There’s a whiff of indignation that anyone should dare to question them though, and that of course their sort cronyism and corruption is fine. That’s inherent in Labour, but even the authoritarian left can’t tell people how to feel ;)

YABU. Starmer is stuffing up spectacularly on several fronts so numerous threads are to be expected. We’re all allowed a voice in a democracy. If you don’t like the threads move on.

That applies to everyone surely? We all have differing opinions.

I feel it's just quite an accurate barometer of the general mood of the country at the moment. Go down your local pub/social club and ask their opinion on Starmer and you'll likely find he really is not very popular at all the moment.

When Sunak, Truss and Johnson were in power there were endless threads attacking their incompetence. Probably the same happened with previous Prime Ministers too.

The only difference in attacking Starmer is that the attack is from a different direction politically. The themes of the attacks are the same (incompetence, dishonesty etc.) precisely because the person in charge is demonstrating those traits.

Remember with the previous shower, we were dealing with the third, fourth and fifth best PMs and cabinets that the party could offer. The concern with the current Labour shower is that Starmer, Rayner, Reeves et al might actually be the high point of this run in power. They're no better than the recent Tory leaders were overall, they are already facing scandal, they lie and avoid answering questions. And these are the best we'll get. At this rate, they'll be out the door in 2029 and we'll have another 15 years of the Tories (probably a Tory/Reform hybrid).

Subsequent leaders are always shit. Whatever you think of Thatcher, Major was shitter. Whatever you think of Blair, Brown was worse. The same with Cameron, May was worse, Johnson was worse still, Truss was shockingly bad and Sunak was abysmal.

Exactly. Mn doesn’t have to be some sort of pro Labour support group. It’s meant to reflect general views

Unfortunately for you, you’re going to have to wait another four years and six months. The only person who can call an election is the PM and no PM with a huge majority is going to do that six months in.

If I was as disappointed with the government as the usual suspects here are I’d be more concerned about the quality of what’s supposed to be the opposition. The remaining Tories and Reform should be tearing the government to shreds but they seem to be missing in action.

There was thread after thread knocking the Tories. Every day a new thread, a new moan. How quickly people forget!

I said before the election that I have not lived the online world during a Labour govt so I am quite fascinated how the professional moaners will adapt if they get in and the other side start to criticise their policies and behaviour.

To throw around bot or Tory HQ slurs is an attempt to shut down debate.

Some people get so tribal with politics these days. Nothing is black and white when the focus is on whatever colour tie politicians they favour.

I hear you OP. It’s absolutely right that any government should be held to account and of course, people will always criticise their policies. There is, however, a massive issue with misinformation and misrepresentation both in the MSM and on social media - people need to be held to account on reporting truth and fact. Starmer has become the target for everything that people are angry about - with absolutely no recognition of other factors or any real, credible alternative. As soon as it’s something they disagree with, it’s, ‘Starmer resign!’ or some bonkers conspiracy-type theories.
There are people in the media (journalist is not the accurate term) who make a living off just repeatedly spouting their twisted narratives and whipping up hate - people posting their demands to know more about the Southport victims’ suffering and then detailing what they do know, without any respect for the victims’ families or their wishes to not disclose the details. It’s sickening.
The leaders of Reform and the Conservatives really set the tone for this too - their statements on the Southport sentencing yesterday was all party politics, absolutely disgusting. They’d have you believe that Starmer is responsible for people looting Greggs, throwing bricks at police and trying to set fire to hotels filled with people. Total lack of responsibility, critical thinking skills and ability to recognise that you can be enraged, horrified and want systemic changes without all of this.

Unfortunately for you, you fail to hear the drumbeats, to sense the mood, to read the room. The UK is pretty unique in embarking on its current, and ill-advised socialist ‘experiment’. Large, and influential parts of the world have swung to the right. Your beloved Govt doesn’t operate in a vacuum.

Policy will be dictated. Politicians will fall.

But it's exactly the same with loads of Trump threads

@Blossomtoes Spin this.

FT citing S&P

Despite the rise in the composite index, employment levels fell for the fourth month in a row according to the survey, with businesses often linking this to rising cost pressures.

S&P Global said that, with the exception of the pandemic period, the rate of job losses signalled by the PMI over the past two months was the highest since the global financial crisis in 2009.

Chris Williamson, economist at S&P Global Market Intelligence, said the survey’s results “add to the gloom about the UK economy, with companies cutting employment amid falling sales and concerns about business prospects”. He warned that inflationary pressures had “reignited, pointing to a stagflationary environment which poses a growing policy quandary for the Bank of England”.

Question.

How do you explain reader comments attached to the MSM? Many websites, including the BBC, Guardian, FT etc permit them. How do you explain readers criticism of this Government - or do you label them misinformed too?

Dissatisfaction with the government doesn’t need explanation or spin. Starmer was explicit that he expected the early days of this government to make it unpopular. The comments on social media, particularly news sites where only the most vocal and politically invested voices are heard are meaningless.

Thatcher’s satisfaction rating stood at 16 in 1981. She remained in government for another nine years having won two more elections. Snapshots in time are just that. Some people need to learn the lessons of history.

Unpopularity, in this case, is a direct by-product of mismanagement of the economy. Equating ‘unpopularity’ with competence and successful outcomes is clearly false - look at the growing adverse data.

When people lose their jobs, and/or are unable to pay their bills owing to mismanaged inflation, you will see how comforted they are by Starmer’s repeated mantra that he is happy to be ‘unpopular’.

A staggering lack of understanding is at play here. Look at readers comments yourself - pick a website that you think represents you if you must, and don’t diminish peoples legitimate views of how poor this Govt is.