To wonder if Starmer can survive the vibe-shift?

[User09678]

Trump has been going hell for leather since his inauguration it seems, things are changing fast - Trump likes the UK, but he doesn't like Starmer. Starmer seems out of sync with the changing tide, and seems (to me) to get it wrong and make it worse everytime he opens his mouth. AIBU in wondering how long Starmer can hang on?

Not true. They said there would be hard decisions and if you want to look at governments not being honest- hello all Tory governments the past few years with mahhhhooosive lies- Brexit, partygate, contracts for mates, stopping the boats….

As I said before this is the gig nobody wanted hence everybody in the Tory party scuttling off having done the damage.

Anyhow your mate Trump likes him and thinks he’s doing a great job. 😊 Rock and a hard place comes to mind.

True. You can see that in public feedback polls and groups etc

As for Trump's actual ideas they've been polled too and people are keener than not.

I don't recall winter fuel payments being mentioned, the Labour Party weren't honest campaigning with Waspi women- two examples of not being straight. My point is that like or loath Trump people will think he is following through

Here's a genuine to Labour supporters: At what point will you concede all is not going well?
Because I guarantee, had the Tories still been in power and big names like Sainsbury's and Lakeland were acting as a direct effect of Conservative policy, none if you would bob on to a thread and say it's OK because the cafes were empty anyway or that it's OK because it what needs to happen to stabilise the country. You would be yelping about Tory incompetence.
So why not when it's Labour's doing? Why was Liz Truss's budget so reviled yet RR's OK and us doing as much harm?
And why will no one answer a pp's question about how big job losses are strengthening the economy and promoting growth?

To address the op, the US is experiencing a massive rise in optimism. Trump brings hope and pride for the US. You may not like the way he does things, but there’s a clear commitment and goal - MAGA
And he stands up for Americans, he love America.

Starmer is the polar opposite. He calls half the population right wing bigots, he favours immigrants, he is doom and gloom and hopelessness. Talks down the uk constantly. He totally kills entrepreneurship and enterprise,and of people getting wealthy through achievement and is only concerned with union backed public sector workers and maybe immigrants?

You can’t underestimate the power of optimism and some national pride

He doesn't..Labour do.

Back when the Labour party was in opposition it must have been easy to assume that they were the good ones. They were the ones telling the electorate that the Tories had plans to cut the winter fuel allowance and the disastrous consequences that would follow for the elderly, they were the ones stood shoulder to shoulder next to waspi women saying that they supported their claims, they were the ones detailing the damage done to the poor with the two child welfare policies and austerity measures. When people said that they would vote conservative labour supporters would suck air between their teeth and say, 'And what of the vulnerable?'

People who feel betrayed by the Labour Party must feel as equally betrayed by the supporters who apparently think all of this is now fine and that it is the fault of the hoodwinked electorate if they voted labour and believed that things would be different and then it is their fault again for not being more optimistic.

At least with labour in opposition, the vulnerable could at least rely on a discussion or debate that would plead their case whereas with the Tories in opposition they will simply sit on their hands and let Reeves dismantle the welfare state in a way that they never could.

You raise a valid point, which I hadn't really appreciated.

I had also thought "we've moved left", and whilst we have a left government, the actually voting was indeed more right.

The local elections in May should be a good indication of which direction we're going.

Agree with this comparison, and why would you kill enterprise like this, it's madness

@Katypp good questions, someone Labour might answer

Haven't some local elections been cancelled?

Of 21 county councils scheduled for this year, 16 have requested a delay:

Derbyshire
Devon
East Sussex
West Sussex
Essex
Gloucestershire
Hampshire
Kent
Leicestershire
Lincolnshire
Norfolk
Oxfordshire
Suffolk
Surrey
Warwickshire
Worcestershire

I think the government is only allowed to accept a delay of 12 out of the 16 requested.
That's still a awful lot of voters unable to vote.

It will be carnage for Labour.

Maybe, maybe not.

It will also possibly be carnage for the Tories, but as 13 Tory led councils have bottled it asked for a delay, we might not see the full extent of that carnage.

I don’t remember the winter fuel allowance being mentioned by any party in the election campaign and support for Waspi women was Corbyn led - I’m one of those women and I never expected that we’d receive compensation, I always thought it was naive optimism.

If I said I wasn’t disappointed since July I’d be lying. I am disappointed by the retention of the two child benefit cap and I’d prefer a more radical approach generally. This all feels a bit Tory lite to me. But it’s hyperbole to talk about dismantling the welfare state - Cameron and Osborne made such huge inroads into that there isn’t much of it left.

I am going to give a new government more than six months in the same way you appear to be giving the virtually non existent opposition more time.

The poll showed that most voters backed Trump’s criticism of the crumbling state of the US government, when the thought was translated to the UK.
He said: “We have a public health system that does not deliver in times of disaster, yet more money is spent on it than any country anywhere in the world.”
When asked whether this applies in the UK, more than 60 per cent supported it.

This isn't just a matter of opinion, it's factually incorrect. In other words, 60% of those surveyed didn't know what they were talking about.

British voters actually back Trump’s policies – here’s the proof

No, it was not mentioned in the campaign - of course. It was a part of every Labour conference until the were in striking distance of governance. They just quietly dropped it.

Starmer absolutely supported the waspi women in opposition and their claims to compensation. If you personally didn't believe the rhetoric, that's fine, but you can hardly say that it adds to Labour's trust capital when they step away from their principles once in office.

In a 2022 interview, Sir Keir said: “All your working life you’ve got in mind the date on which you can retire and get your pension, and just as you get towards it, the goalposts are moved and you don’t get it, and it’s a real injustice.

We need to do something about it. That wasn’t the basis on which you paid in or the basis on which you were working"

Perhaps you heard that and thought, 'oh, he's misdirecting the electorate here' but I don't remember you up and down the boards in June to give everybody clarity on the issue - just telling everyone that people voting on single sex issues are muppets and Labour are the real cheerleader for women.

One big problem that Labour face is that the press got used to the constant political drama over the last 10 years. The current government are a bit boring by comparison, but column inches still need to be filled, so the press will dig for any dirt they can, and if they can't find any then they go for vibes.

This isn't 'vibes' it's impacting jobs

Business volumes in the services sector are anticipated to decline (-18%), driven by predicted falls in both business and professional services (-13%) and consumer services (-37%). Distribution sales are expected to fall steeply (-35%), and manufacturers also anticipate output to fall (-31%), with expectations at their weakest since May 2020.

Reeves and Starmer have created this problem with their own misjudgement and policy errors

Whether they keep laughing it off and trying to distract with China / third runway / anything we'll see

Perhaps you heard that and thought, 'oh, he's misdirecting the electorate here' but I don't remember you up and down the boards in June to give everybody clarity on the issue - just telling everyone that people voting on single sex issues are muppets and Labour are the real cheerleader for women.

I’ve always been pretty clear that I thought compensation for WASPI women was for the birds, it wasn’t an election issue. I don’t think any political party is a cheerleader for women and, although “muppet” isn’t part of my lexicon, I do think single issue voters are misguided.

Care to address any of the other points I made?

This nonsense that the press are giving Labour a harder time than they gave Conservatives really does need to he put to bed.
Labour are giving the press plenty to get their teeth into without any digging or 'looking for vibes', whatever that means

We’ll put it to bed when it stops.

This nonsense that the press are giving Labour a harder time than they gave Conservatives really does need to he put to bed.
Labour are giving the press plenty to get their teeth into without any digging or 'looking for vibes', whatever that means

Yep it's nonsense

I agree that the press enjoy political drama, of course they do. I disagree that this government are a bit boring leaving the media having to dig for dirt.
This government are the gift that keeps on giving for the press. From Starmer with his Lord Ali freebies, Sue Gray, Lou Haigh, WFA, right through to his appointment of a possibly corrupt anti corruption minister. Boring they are not!

Labour will see

No, Blossomtoes, nothing further to say. I've seen you wave away concerns about wfa because your friends don't need it, waspi concerns because you never believed it, concerns for the disability coming in Spring because Osborne was worse, and claim that Keir needs a Falklands so he can see a boost in the polls. I think we can just agree to disagree from herein.