To feel everyone is anti trans?

[Kitjo]

I'm well aware of current US views led by Trump - but are these views generally held/supported in the UK? Of course I understand opinions on NHS gender reassignment funding, as well as controversies over trans women in sport. Needless to say I'm fully aware of concerns over women's safety issues. Are there any sympathisers or supporters out there? What about trans masculine folk who are surely no threat to women's safety or sport? None of these people would choose such a hard life, socially, financially, physically, mentally, emotionally... am I alone in thinking a bit of kindness and compassion towards the trans community might be appreciated for the massive personal struggles they have to face? I am open minded to hearing and understanding your views.

I’m I pro sex offenders who claim they’re trans to get access to vunerable women and to fulfill their sexual fantasties? No

I’m I pro transwomen who have signifigant biological advantage competiting again women? No

I’m I pro trans people having timely access to medical support and in their local area? Yes

I’m I pro trans needs taking medication and having surgeries which have life long side effects when research shows 90% of them will detransition? No

Does this make me anti- trans?

They can do whatever they want in peace. Just stop pushing the "agenda" and keep womens spaces for women.

The rights of men dressed up as women do not trump the rights of actual women.

The point has already been raised.
I don’t care what anyone calls themselves.
I don’t care who they have sex with so long as they are both consenting adults.
What I do mind is men in female spaces.
Women’s sport should be what it says on the tin- for women and not a male who can identify as female.
Ditto changing rooms and toilets.
The problem we have is men ( not trans people but men) getting access to vulnerable women and girls.
So yeah, because successive governments have cow towed to this minority of predatory men, people like Trump have gained.
If it came to a choice between what Trump had said or the present alternative, then I’m with Trump.

I understand it very well, thank you. Many people on this thread have defined what they mean by 'anti trans'. You appear to be unable to even define what you mean by trans. You seem..... confused.

Nobody really has a problem with trans identified people living their life as they wish. Britain is quite a tolerant country. We have laws to protect all people from harassment.

What most people ( and it is most, it’s not an ‘online’ thing) do have a problem with is people trying to claim rights as something they are not, that is, the opposite sex. This is not really about trans people, it’s about men. It’s about the reason why we have single sex spaces and sports, and the negative impact it has on women when we get rid of those single sex spaces by letting men in. When you let men in, any men can get in.

When it comes to gender confused children they should get the same mental health support any distressed child should get. ‘Affirming’ is not healthcare. It’s ideology, and that has no place in evidence led medicine.

Oh ok then, I’m anti trans if you prefer. I don’t really care what you think.

Assuming the trans person isn't disabled, then they need to stay out of a disabled space to leave it free for disabled people that need it. Of course if they're disabled then they should be able to use it just like any other disabled person.

Exactly this, in addition I don’t care for people who actively encourage anxious teens who are still finding out about themselves, about sex and relationships and who are daily bombarded with sexual images and expectations, being encouraged to permanently disable their bodies and ruin their reproductive health by starting on a downward spiral of surgery and crippling drug use.

I would also far rather the huge and disproportionate amount of resources that are poured into the affirmation of trans people were instead poured into making life better and more positive for people who have disabilities and genuine reasons for finding life hard.

On here there is a large gender critical group who believe in the primacy of sex over gender and are worried about the increase in f to m transitions and what that says about the acceptance of masc lesbians/ the acceptableness of being gender non conforming (ie. Just being accepted for who you are without the need for surgery/pronoun changes). I have quite a lot of sympathy for this point of view.

There is also a contingent on here who clearly find trans people and what they 'stand for' disgusting or frightening. I think this stems from a fear of men honestly as it tends to relate only to trans women.

Both of these povs are about something that is quite niche and won't affect many cis people at all but somehow it's become the flagship issue for those who feel like the world has gone mad.

In answer to your question I think compassion should be the central way to deal with any issue that so intimately affects people's lives. Personally and politically. Stigmatising and spreading hate for trans people as you might see here and as you definitely see in right wing politics does no-one any good.
Fascist politicians are coming for trans people and Muslims now, but they'll be coming for women and gay people next.

Agree fully with this.

There are also many women on here who are afraid how the ideology will affect their children. No sane parent wants their healthy child damaging themselves with medication or surgery.

I looked for the opposite argument online and found all sorts of posts elsewhere encouraging young people to take puberty blockers and hormones, and telling them that sex would be better than ever after surgery. When the reality is far from that, and young women detransitioners are coming out and saying the 'treatment' damaged them irreversibly.

That's worrying.

This is where I am too.

I suspect medical transitioning will eventually come to be seen in the same light lobotomy is now seen. They are trying to treat a mental health problem (false belief about bodily sex or huge distress over bodily sex) with drugs and operations and the evidence it helps more often than it fails doesn’t exist. I think many who have transitioned eventually come to see it as the wrong thing to have done, but a long way down the line, once the euphoria of doing something about the bad feeling has worn off and they realize it was all a pipe dream and that they were sold the lie that changing the body would stop them hating themselves.

The term trans used to be thought to mean someone who was transitioning, but now it is applied to anyone, from distressed lesbians to cross dressing men and to men who simply claim they feel like something they are not, but make no changes at all. We are supposed to believe that to be “trans” is to have some undefined deep inner feeling about being the opposite sex. But deep inner feelings are not facts and “gender identity” is as impossible to define as “soul”.

I think the entire thing will implode in a few years and we will return to understanding that there are transvestites who are sexually aroused by posing as women and that, in addition, a few people feel genuine distress over their sex, probably largely due to bullying in early childhood. The demographic that most of the latter group are male will return, because feminine boys generally receive more criticism from homophobic and misogynistic parents than masculine girls.

And I think we are going to have to make space for all the damaged people, and especially the children and that we need to look after them after the doctors have done so much damage, but beyond that, I hope the whole push to normalise the insane idea that men can be women will finally be put to bed.

I am supportive but you won't find much support here. There are more inclusive forums out there.

I am not anti-trans and so avoid the vile 'feminist' section that works itself up into a froth over a minority group that in reality does not impact their day to day lives at all. The anti-trans rhetoric and the way it has been weaponised by the far right is deeply depressing.

You can find examples of terrible people in any group (including biological women!). The vast majority of trans people want to get on with their lives in the way that feels authentic to them and are not the terrible bogey men as presented on Mumsnet. Their existence has very little to no impact on other people . The anger they generate is totally out of proportion.

I think lots of trans people are confused, especially young ones, hardly surprising when society still has some quite set views on what men and women should be and how they should act, what they should wear etc. In that way I have sympathy for many of them as if we were more accepting of masculine women and feminine men, then most trans people wouldn’t feel they were trans. Regardless, they need to use spaces based on sex. The entitlement of some of them is where I lose sympathy.

They need mental health help. This isn’t like being gay, they’re not born trans, they just don’t fit into silly societal expectations of their sex or they feel uncomfortable with their body. The answer isn’t to identify out of their sex using gender.

Non-disabled trans people often use disabled spaces. They are also told by others to, "Just use disabled toilets" if they don't want to use the toilet for their sex assigned at birth.

Being trans isn't a disability.

HTH

I don't think most people are anti trans as I don't think most people think about it. But when they do think about it, or it's highlighted in the media (eg males in women's prison) they realise how absurd it is.

I have no issue with adults identifying as trans, as long as they do not encroach on women's rights and spaces, and as long as they don't expect me to ascribe to their ideology.

I do have a huge issue with adults affirming trans identities in children. Most of these children are unhappy, traumatised, bullied, autistic etc. they need proper support to overcome their underlying difficulties not adults to agree with them that they've been born in the wrong body and that trying to change this (can't happen) is the answer to their prayers.

I do not consider myself anti-trans. I have no issue refering to anyone by their chosen pronouns, though I get confused times enough with the they/ them. I got much better at it.
I have no issues sharing toilet facilities with trans-women or trans-men, but not so with changing rooms. If they put curtains on showers or enclosed individual spaces in said changing room, then no issue with me.
But, it should go both ways. Do not compete on women sports if you have physical characteristics that make it unfair, do not impose your presence on rape crisis groups aimed at women, breastfeeding groups or similars. I think asking is ok, but impossing nope. I am sure trans people have plenty of cases of abuse and rape, but they need a separate group, if it is going to upset others in a very vulnerable time. We should be respectful both ways and not entitled.

You should look up AGP.

Anti because it is appropriating another's ....status.

A lot of women have so little because of men and then they take their femininity as well.

Wow the intolerance I've read of Mumsnet of both trans and Muslim people over the last few days just makes me want to never use this forum again. Makes you feel like the world is full of bigots.

Really depressing.

people say this subject is only important online and on mumsnet. That's because it's anonymous. online and people can say what they really think.

For the longest time you could be cancelled for saying something as innocuous as humans can't change sex and males don't belong in female spaces. In the "real world" people keep their mouths shut (but the majority are overwhelmingly gender critical)

@PicturePlace
Go back and read your comments. You have added precisely nothing to this discussion other than pointless insults, which will flow off the back of anyone intelligent. The problem for TRA is there are so few of them who are articulate, I think there are a couple on mumsnet, but they haven't appeared on this thread yet. And going up against the highly intelligent JKR they have nothing in their bag other than shouting the insults and banging their drums as loud as possible. Which is embarrassing.

I’m not against any group of people unless they try to force their agenda. So not anti-trans but definitely anti-trans activism. The main thing is that I don’t actually understand gender as a concept as it isn’t something I identify with at all. I don’t even know what it means! Yes I feel like a female (because I am female?), buy female clothes (because they fit my female body), use female toilets (mostly because they are generally clean but also I expect them to be safe).

Seriously, what else does it actually mean? is it just conformity with social norms, which are completely different depending on culture so can’t be defined.

In line with other people on this thread, I think failure to accept biological reality is likely a sign of mental illness and feel these people need, in the first instance, counselling to help with self acceptance. To my mind they are questioning something that doesn’t really exist, so what else am I supposed to think?