To feel everyone is anti trans?

[Kitjo]

I'm well aware of current US views led by Trump - but are these views generally held/supported in the UK? Of course I understand opinions on NHS gender reassignment funding, as well as controversies over trans women in sport. Needless to say I'm fully aware of concerns over women's safety issues. Are there any sympathisers or supporters out there? What about trans masculine folk who are surely no threat to women's safety or sport? None of these people would choose such a hard life, socially, financially, physically, mentally, emotionally... am I alone in thinking a bit of kindness and compassion towards the trans community might be appreciated for the massive personal struggles they have to face? I am open minded to hearing and understanding your views.

So you can't define it.

I am pro women and anti the brainwashing and mutilation of children.
ALL men need to stay out of women’s spaces.

Define 'trans'?

What happened to old fashioned Cross dressing? Nobody gives a shit about men in dresses or pink leggings. Or women in jeans.

What they do care about is men using an identity or pretence to access women's spaces.

And actually some men aren't that keen on having women in running in and out the men's loos either, or being next to them in hospital beds.

Maybe you can define "trans" for us if the OP can't?

Exactly. This is not the place to ask. In my experience most people don't feel as strongly as those on Mumsnet.

I'm anti facism. And anti paedophilia. And anti dogs in shops. Are you saying the definition of trans is fascism, paedophilia and dogs in shops? Illuminating.

Same as this. Do what you want and be who you want, but not at the expense of someone else's comfort and safety, and don't demand others to be complicit in YOUR idea of reality if it contrasts with theirs.

I'd say out of the people I know, it's probably about 50/50, but those that are not anti trans aren't pro flag waving trans either. They're more of the mindset "each to their own as long as they're not hurting anyone." Then the ones that are anti trans I would say are more just traditional working class, the ones who don't want it taught in schools, don't want kids around it, dislike the woke leftist agenda, but they're not attending anti trans protests or anything. I'm in the latter group as are most of my family, DH and his mates, mainly my friends are in the former group. Although I do know a few who probably would attend a protest tbh.

I do think in general we're as a society coming a bit more full circle on this now, I think people are just generally towing a less extreme line and just want a normal life with no extreme views either way. I'm in the UK btw if that makes a difference.

So you can't define it.

Do you not understand the thing you're anti? It's a pity you spend so much energy in hating it, so. Maybe try a better hobby?

I am not "anti" trans people.

I believe they are quite seriously mentally ill and they deserve compassion and help.

Unfortunately their illness is being validated by current society and it is causing great harm to these vulnerable people and another extremely vulnerable group (women).

I think it is also silly not to acknowledge the overlaps with the fetishization of women by SOME of these men. Wearing mini skirts and crop tops, talking about sexual things in front of random people and being extremely misogynistic about actual women.

In both cases, the person needs serious help/intervention.

I always come back to this example, but we don't tell Schizophrenics that the voices are real... Why are we so set on validating this illness?

I think that if this issue didn't affect women so seriously and instead it affected men, there would be quite a different approach.

They are allowed to take opportunities that should be reserved for women. They are allowed to receive care and enter spaces that should be reserved for women. It is grossly unfair and people are conveniently blind to the fact that women are the most oppressed group of people on the planet.

They speak about violence against trans people without having a look at the numbers of violence and assaults against women. I imagine it wouldn't be quite so good for their cause.

The old fashioned cross dressers were called "transsexuals"

Telling the world your 4 year old is "transsexual" was never going to go down well, so that word needed to be memory holed. Oh, along with the knowledge we all had pre 2017 that there was usually an erotic driver behind this behaviour.

Looks like you can't define it...

Thank you for writing this, it’s saved me ten minutes this morning so I won’t be late to the hairdressers.

100% agree. Trans is bullshit, this is Great watching

Perfectly put.

All fine as long as trans rights don't impinge on women's rights to a single sex space or sport.

Biology cannot be altered.

JK Rowling summed it up perfectly when she said dress as you please, call yourself what you like but stay out of women”s spaces. Or words to that effect.

if someone wishes to present as a different sex I’ve no issue with that and they should be allowed to do so without harassment or discrimination.

But they have not magically changed sex and should not be allowed in women’s spaces if they are male. If they are trans men I don’t really mind which spaces they use as they pose no risk to me.

I also do not think that children should be encouraged or allowed to take life changing drugs or have cosmetic surgery.

None of that makes me “anti trans”

Nobody I know is ant-trans, or anti-gay or anti-personal choice. Everyone I know is anti pushing their preferences on our children and us. Keep it concealed. Nobody gives a shit who you sleep with. On my LinkedIn page (I am straight) I don't post stuff about fucking men, when I come to an interview, my application does not scream 'I fuck men/men fuck me', I just keep sexuality out of it - it is personal. Also, everyone I know is against forcing us to disbelief biology - that men can become women and vice versa, this includes participation of Lia Thomases of this word in female sports. That is all. Seriously. My dd has a friend who is trans m-f. I welcome him in the house and don't talk about any trans-issues. The only thing I said to my dd is that if she is true friend, she would stop being politically correct and beg him not to undergo surgery and hormonal treatment as the stories of de-transitioning are too painful to watch even for those who are not directly involved. I call him 'she' because I like the boy, but if I were to be mandated to pretend a male teacher at school is female, I would not do it and withdraw my dc.

TWAM obviously.

Totally agree with this.

I think most people broadly agree on this, when they're allowed to speak freely and not bamboozled by deliberately obfuscatory language.

They're supportive of people expressing themselves however they wish, but don't agree with men accessing women's spaces on the grounds of gender identity.

If being pro-women is 'anti trans', then being pro trans must be 'anti-women.'

People can wear what they like, have sex with any consenting adult they like, what they do not get to do is force everyone else to treat them as if they are the opposite sex to what they are. It's nonsense, unfair and dangerous: and completely tramples on all the established safeguarding rules.

Have you watched any of the videos of TRA activists beating up elderly lesbians, do you know what the cotton ceiling is, have you been told to “enjoy your erasure”, encountered the idea of a “lady dick”, seen photos of Lia Thompson on a podium or read about autogynephilia? The naivety of some individuals when it comes to the associated ideology of being pro-trans is astounding.

I wondered the same thing

You’re on the wrong forum for this question but Yes I do agree with you. There’s definitely been a shift to ani trans feeling.

Not anti trans but anti men who say they are women entering female spaces, taking part in female events, and anti the compelled use of wrong sex pronouns. And definitely anti people being bullied or losing their jobs for publicly stating any of this.