To feel everyone is anti trans?

[Kitjo]

I'm well aware of current US views led by Trump - but are these views generally held/supported in the UK? Of course I understand opinions on NHS gender reassignment funding, as well as controversies over trans women in sport. Needless to say I'm fully aware of concerns over women's safety issues. Are there any sympathisers or supporters out there? What about trans masculine folk who are surely no threat to women's safety or sport? None of these people would choose such a hard life, socially, financially, physically, mentally, emotionally... am I alone in thinking a bit of kindness and compassion towards the trans community might be appreciated for the massive personal struggles they have to face? I am open minded to hearing and understanding your views.

In my experience of working in a supportive capacity with trans people, every single one has had a bigger issue or trauma than the issue of actual gender identity in their background.
I’ve also supported a number of ‘detransitions’ back to their original gender, once their trauma was dealt with. I wouldn’t go as far to generalise that past traumas cause all trans identity issues, but in my own working experience, it’s undeniable that they changed their gender to escape trauma-related or mental health problems. That shouldn’t be overlooked.

Yeah, sure, pronouns, whatever, but do 99% of people agree with trans women in women's sports or in women's prisons?

I think not.

You don’t hear people talking like that irl because they are scared, with justification, that they will be attacked with accusations of hate, bigotry and transphobia and hounded out of their jobs or voluntary organisations if they say aloud their true opinions.

Have you taught your 5-year-old that "treating people with respect" means doing that for everyone, even people with whose opinions they disagree? Does it include people who decline to use a pronoun that they believe would involve them telling a lie? Or is the respect and the "live and let live" just a one-way thing?

For what it's worth, I am a supporter of the trans community and am saddened by the comments made from the Trump administration. I have also been on Mumsnet long enough to know that I generally keep that to myself.

😂You're not able to critique any of that article are you tandora? So you just dismiss it as "anti trans" A regular pattern of discourse if I recall correctly

This is my experience too. Mumsnet is, despite the branding and its weirdly persistent image of Joules-clad parents talking about biscuits, an 'extremely online' place and I've noticed that posters on here are getting as radicalised as they are anywhere else.

Can you describe some of these 'radical' views?

The group who holds the same views they have always held arent the ones being radicalised.

There's nothing radical about wanting to protect women's spaces.

Yes, women like your daughter don’t have the same advantage in accessing men’s spaces and sports, as men do accessing women’s.

Care to back any of that up? Any evidence? Posts?

We never hear of Transmen causing trouble, do we? It's always Transwomen who want to push the boundaries, and if women are made to feel uncomfortable, so what, they are collateral damage! I wonder why that is? I have a fairly good idea!

Mumsnet is a site run by and for women. It's hardly surprising that it leans somewhat feminist. (The original, reality based kind of feminism, as opposed to the away with the fairies student union kind of feminism.)

Its membership also consists largely of women who have grown children in their own bodies and given birth to them, which may also provide a clue as to why so many of us are sceptical about the idea that sex is just a feeling in someone's head.

If you call that radicalisation, that says more about you than it does about Mumsnet.

This. If Dave wants to have long hair and wear a skirt, I don't have a problem with that. If he wants to call himself Davina, fine.

What's not fine is Dave, with a penis, is getting changed in female changing rooms, with actual women around.

What is not fine is Dave, full of testosterone and a different muscular composition, competing in woman's competitions and wipes the floor with them, when they probably would have been middling against their own sex, but can beat women hands down.

What is not fine is Dave, who rapes someone or tries to kill someone and it is reported as a female crime.

It's all utter bollocks (pun intended).

There is a link. Trans ideology uses children to bolster the idea that 'trans' exists and some of the treatments of trans children e.g. puberty blockers produce permanently pre-pubescent people who would be of interest to paedophiles.
But the link doesn't really belong on this thread.

I’d like to know why everyone that has an issue with the idea of trans people always comes down to the men accessing womens spaces argument? Have they never heard of F2M trans or does that not suit their narrative? Leave them be.

The only ones being radicalised here are the ones who think you can change sex and that men should suddenly have access to women's spaces and sports because of inner feelings.

Along with thinking it's ok to put young, confused, usually autistic people onto a pathway of irreversible medical decisions.

If you want to be concerned with 'radicalised people', start with that. Everyone else remains on sanity island.

When I was about 12-13 years old, back in 1992, I was deeply embarrassed of and uncomfortable with my pubescent body and I vividly remember looking at myself in horror in the mirror and deciding that when I grew up I would have my breasts surgically removed - needless to say, I got used to my changing body in the end and got over it and live happily as a woman. I dread to think what rabbit hole I might have gone down if the internet and trans ideology had existed then the way they do now, and if it had all been shoved down my throat at that vulnerable and impressionable age. I absolutely know there are kids out there who have been influenced by social media and decided, based on that, that they are trans - kids who, without that influence would have happily just got on with the process of growing up. Some of them would have been gay or lesbian, and that would have been that - happy days.

I have a very close friend whose dd is trans, very impressionable, frequently going down rabbit holes on the internet despite the best efforts of her parents to avoid this, and since turning 13 completely turned her back on who she was and now wants to transition to male, surgically - this has been going on for 2 years. She has body dysmorphia, is gay and is being assessed for autism. I don't believe that, if she had been born 30 years ago, the idea of actually physically changing sex would have crossed her mind. She now chases this idea that surgery will fix everything, because the internet has told her it will. If this was 1990 I believe she would have gradually come to terms with her changing body and found the inner peace she is seeking as a lesbian, and that would have been that. I also believe that some people are genuinely trans and would have naturally come to that conclusion of their own accord without outside influences - I don't believe the majority of young people today fit in to that category.

I also believe that the spread of trans ideology is a huge part of why Trump has just got back into power. That's the knock on effect of all of this.

Trump is vile. Not everyone who fights for "women" to mean "adult human females" and deplores the incursion of males into female spaces, organisations and opportunities is a right-wing Trump or Tory supporter.

Because trans men are women and trans women are men.

(Are we allowed to say that?)

If you feel that everyone hates you, ask yourself if the problem is that your demands are unreasonable.

You haven't posted on the wrong forum. AIBU is more heavily-used and is an issue affecting everyone.

There are a great many threads posted on this issue which deliberately seem to be stirring up controversy, often with the explicit intention of sharing on other sites who have, to put it mildly, 'issues' with Mumsnet. The more leery among us who have seen this happen repeatedly will understandably be sceptical.

If that wasn't you - and I previously suggested it could be - then I've misread your intentions, which as far as the thread title at least is concerned do appear incendiary. However, you've certainly started a useful discussion.

F2M are not risks to men.
Nor are they taking men's slots in sports.🙄

How do you think F2M trans would impact men’s sport?

Fucking hell, the ignorance. Men pose more of a threat to women than women pose to men.

How that needs spelling out I don't know.