To feel everyone is anti trans?

[Kitjo]

I'm well aware of current US views led by Trump - but are these views generally held/supported in the UK? Of course I understand opinions on NHS gender reassignment funding, as well as controversies over trans women in sport. Needless to say I'm fully aware of concerns over women's safety issues. Are there any sympathisers or supporters out there? What about trans masculine folk who are surely no threat to women's safety or sport? None of these people would choose such a hard life, socially, financially, physically, mentally, emotionally... am I alone in thinking a bit of kindness and compassion towards the trans community might be appreciated for the massive personal struggles they have to face? I am open minded to hearing and understanding your views.

I am not ‘anti trans’ . I am not against anyone living within whatever gender construct they feel suits them. Trans people have the same rights as any of us to live free from discrimination and prejudice. I would fiercely defend any trans person being bullied for being trans, having their lawful employment rights withdrawn etc. nothing against people who happen to be trans at all.

However I am against:
People who went through male puberty taking part in women’s sport
People with penises in women’s protected spaces
Gender replacing and displacing sex as a category (happy for it to be a category, but sex and gender to be recognised as different things)
The ideological belief that sex can be changed or is not binary.
People being cancelled , harassed, arrested and subjected to online rape threats for believing any of the above

Actually you will. Almost everyone in the real world is well aware that there are only two sexes and nobody has or ever will changed their sex.

It's not anti trans it's just pro reality.

Especially when a huge proportion of young people identifying as trans are autistic and are already vulnerable. It’s frightening.

Trans people, who aren't disabled, frequently think they can use disabled toilets. Of course someone calling themselves trans, who is also disabled, can use the appropriate facilities.

Not bigots. Just intelligent, fearless, critical thinkers who don’t feel the need to be kind.

I’m not anti-trans and I don’t know many people who would begrudge a person who wants to dress/talk/name themselves any particular way. Live and let live.

I am anti males in female spaces/sports!

Well, yes
I am incredibly intolerant to nonsense like this.
It is the fact that they are pushing it so far that anything and everything will become acceptable and normalized.
I am a mother and a woman and I will do my very best to protect my children from this bullshit.
If that makes me intolerant then boo fucking hoo.

The gay analogy is just facile I'm afraid @Bunny44. It isn't remotely like being gay. Being gay has absolutely no impact on anyone else. Unlike males demanding women's rights.

Is this a new way to push this ideology? Call everyone horrible and unkind? And then go all doe-eyed and say ‘is anyone with us?’.

The need for the suspension of material reality was always going to be a problem …..

What about trans masculine folk who are surely no threat to women's safety or sport? None of these people would choose such a hard life, socially, financially, physically, mentally, emotionally

To address this point specifically. I don’t want young girls being told they are not performing feminine roles properly and judged for it. I don’t want young autistic or lesbian women being made to feel uncomfortable about dressing in a gender non conforming way. I don’t want those girls being told they probably should have been a boy,or that they are non-binary or trans by so called ‘kind’ and progressive people. Because THAT is what is going to cause them a hard life socially, financially (medical), mentally and emotionally.

Girls who dress comfortably, have short hair, no make up and prefer sport and cars over dresses and shopping are just girls. It is supremely sexist to suggest they are anything else.

I've got news for you. People can't change sex.

What does anti-trans mean?
as far as I know there is no definition of what being trans is, let alone to be anti.

I’ve seen arguments between TRA supporters about what a ‘true trans’ person is. this is why the debate is so toxic.

the fact is everyone has a different limit to what they deem they can accept. I’d say I wasn’t anti-trans but you absolutely should only occupy spaces to do with your biological sex. I do not see any conflict with those 2 positions. They seem perfectly reasonable to me but until recently this would have seen an extreme position.

Others clearly disagree and state anyone can be anything (even at different times of day!) and anyone who isn’t comfortable with a massive bearded person in the ladies changing room is anti trans.

the only way to solve the problem is to do what Trump did and mandate back to sexes. We all know where we stand. People can dress and go about their business as they please but knowing they follow the rules of society.

sounds like the death knell of a disintegrating ideology.

It didn’t take long for this thread to descend into the usual hateful tone. I wonder what all these posters get out of it.

In real life, my DC is trans and I find people are thoughtful, tolerant (whatever their own views) and supportive. People are able to
appreciate it for the highly complex issue it is rather than reducing it to simplistic slogans and tabloid headlines.

This is basically it. Surveys show this is the majority view of the British public. This is the gender critical view too.

The people on here thinking MN is out of line with the British public, are deeply wrong. The British public, like MN feminists, are happy for trans identified people to have rights as trans identified people ( not to be harassed etc) but they object to men claiming the rights of women.

What does a teenage girl with ROGD have in common with a 50yo male autogynophile? What to primary school children have in common with either of these groups?

We are being lied to - there is no cohesive group of "trans" people?

This.

My position is that on meeting and interacting with a trans-person in rl, I hope I would treat them as respectfully as any other person I meet on a daily basis.

That wouldn’t stop me though objecting to the inclusion of transwomen in women’s sport, for campaigning to protect women’s spaces, and to be seriously concerned, and vote for protective measures around the provision of hormones to often vulnerable teens or young adults.

Also, I think far more needs to be done about male violence. If transgender people are afraid to use male toilets, that’s because of male violence. Why do females always have to make room on the bench when it’s male violence that is the cause of so many issues?

People feel exactly the same as we do on here, but they humour you to your faces. Because they're kind and polite, as are we.

if by hateful tone you mean biological realism and the refusal to pretend that humans can change sex. And the refusal to pander to children who've been groomed online to believe they can change sex and it will solve their mental health issues/autism/depression. Read The Cass Review: cass.independent-review.uk/home/publications/final-report/

I'm not sure where the hard life is meant to be, its a bit like the myth that they're the most maganilised people ever when in fact there has never been a group of people who got their demands met so quickly, all around the world, at the expense of others.

I don't have a problem with individuals, people can wear what they want etc, but I'm not about to compromise my rights or redefine myself to include males, or turn a blind eye to child safe guarding.

Surely on mumsnet is where you get the best representation of mums views? All demographics. Yes, mumsnet is pro women and pro children.

The women in the naughty feminism corner have been predicting this horrible backlash for years. Like many on this thread most posters there want trans people to live peaceful and fulfilled lives. However, setting your stall up by insisting others believe it is possible to actually change sex, that males belong in women's sports, prisons and rape centres was always going to end up here. It is so hard to maintain sympathy when rape survivors are being turned away from services because they cannot see men as women.

There was another way to achieve rights for trans people, that recognized the rights of these people along side maintaining single sex spaces where necessary. But the angry men didn't want this. They wanted our stuff and our space. They actively supported the 'trans kid's phenomenon, egging young girls on to brutalise themselves to give themselves cover.

And so, here we are. And it is ugly as hell. But there was a better way. And they were told over and over.