To feel everyone is anti trans?

[Kitjo]

I'm well aware of current US views led by Trump - but are these views generally held/supported in the UK? Of course I understand opinions on NHS gender reassignment funding, as well as controversies over trans women in sport. Needless to say I'm fully aware of concerns over women's safety issues. Are there any sympathisers or supporters out there? What about trans masculine folk who are surely no threat to women's safety or sport? None of these people would choose such a hard life, socially, financially, physically, mentally, emotionally... am I alone in thinking a bit of kindness and compassion towards the trans community might be appreciated for the massive personal struggles they have to face? I am open minded to hearing and understanding your views.

Ok, why don't you go back to my post where I cite the data on the countries doing best for womens' parity with men and other wellbeing measures, and look at all the top performers amongst these countries who also have policies of self ID?

I know other posters have made spurious claims that the association is actually an economic one, of course I have posted the data on that as well, which shows the association is clearly nowhere near as strong here.

No, I'm saying that whatever characteristics they have, ultimately they are either male or female. if a baby is born with webbed feet it doesn't make them a duck.

No, many of us have watched and supported our trans identifying family members under the mistaken belief they would commit suicide if not affirmed - only to discover over time that it makes fuck all difference. They are mentally ill and need help and support with the underlying issues informing the belief they are trans and/or space in which to explore these feelings and beliefs so that they, like 90% of those supported neutrally do, can find their way back and socially detransition without having disfigured themselves.

Moreover, the murder stats are marginal - more people are killed in Rhino stampedes each year than trans persons are murdered. Of those that are, @ 70% are by lovers/pimps because they are engaged in the sex trade, especially in places like Brazil - where, coincidentally the figures for missing woman and girls presumed to have been subsumed into sex slavery, is more than 10x the rate of trans persons deaths.

And the suicide risk? All the evidence of the last 10 years, repudiates the stats TRAs continually cite - it demonstrates that post operative trans women are at the highest risk and that the sweet spot is 2 years. This new evidence was supported by the original (Dutch?) team that first suggested that there was a suicide risk arising from not affirming trans youths… they have since categorically withdrawn that assertion stating that the evidence was weak in the original study.

So, perhaps try some critical thinking yourself and broaden your evidence search from reddit and pro-trans websites to a proper range of term searches on google scholar?

Sorry was meant to reply to @PicturePlace

i wanted them to explain how it was transphobic to say there is a biological reality of the 2 sexes!

hopefully my posts to date explain my views on the subject!

I’ve explained it so many times on this site. At length. People respond the same way as they do when I explain sex.

”NO ITS NOT! THATS NOT TRUE! YOU HATE WOMEN! WE SEE YOU!”

Then they tell me I never explain anything and I’ve “had my arse handed” to me 🤷🏼‍♀️

It is interesting to me that the phrase "multidimensional biological construct" is not further expanded/defined here. Scientifically those dimensions are hormones, genetics, physiology and anatomy and overwhelmingly mean people are biologically male or female (yes, intersex people do exist but they are not synonymous with trans people). It is extremely hard to see how the trans debate on either side is a scientific debate. Certainly, I've never seen a trans advocate suggest that genetic or physiological tests could be completed to qualify for a gender certificate for example, neither by and large do the complainants about inclusionary sports want such tests for all competitors. Instead, it is largely a debate about how we perceive and treat each other and ourselves.

Most people are not anti, they are not pro they simply want people to be happy. Trans people have always existed but we're rare, what many people including me cannot accept that such huge swathes of our young people are sudden trans, in my young friends class of 13 girls, only 2 identify as female, that's not right! Also this explosion in numbers directly correlates to other mental health issues being more widespread.

I don't care what name you use, I don't care if you are 6ft tall with stubble and love flowing pint dresses, feel free to wear them but irreversible drugs and surgery needs to be used very sparingly and only where there's clear evidence that this is what is best for the individual, not without extensive counselling, a clear understanding of the limits of surgical procedures, sign of from multiple professionals and a substantial cooling off period

No worries! I'd love an answer too.

“Men in frocks”

is this your understanding of what it is to be trans?

@Tandora

In the most derogatory of ways, that is exactly what they are. Again, as per my first post, I don't acknowledge the word or definition of Trans. There is no such thing. There are men and there are women. There are also a very tiny number of intersex people. You and your virtue signalling, penis apologising fluff will not and never will change science.

This really sums it up so well , beautifully put. As for the rest of the 'argument ' in this thread, well that's enough toxicity and obsessive speculation about rapists in toilets for one day .

Maybe because you're talking bullshit.

The nerve of accusing others of a semantic claim. 😂

The entire trans house of cards is built on erroneous semantic claims that have no bearing on reality.

lol. I look forward to your billion dollar book and film franchise.

What do you mean by "anti trans"?

This really sums it up so well , beautifully put. As for the rest of the 'argument ' in this thread, well that's enough toxicity and obsessive speculation about rapists in toilets for one day .

Having put precisely zero "argument" of your own as to why women should consider men women just because they say so. Well done though!

No, you post factually incorrect information. People respond accordingly. If I insist 2+2=5 and use a lot of word salad to try and say this is true, people will respond correcting me on this.

You then keep on with this incorrect information, until you say ‘I’m getting abuse!’.

Take a telling.

I'm saying that whatever characteristics they have, ultimately they are either male or female

Ok, but if they have some characteristics that are typically female, and some that are typically male, how and on what basis do you decide which category they belong to? Which characteristics take priority over which others in which contexts?
Can you not see that this can become a complex process of human determination , involving observation of multiple aspects of the body through scientific technologies (that are necessarily limited by what we have) and also a matter of human / scientific judgement?

And what is the value of this judgement? Why the need to place in one category or the other, when objectively we have a mix of characteristics of both?

Easy.

The countries that are doing the best on women rights are running out of issues to fight. A whole infrastructure has been set up to support the cause which has less and less work to do, leaving the people within them with no role and lacking the skills to find a new one. They could of course concentrate on the issues face by women in the third world and those who live in repressive regimes such as Uygher Muslim women, as an example. But these people are poor and too far away to show proper respect to all of the white middle class women with degrees in women studies from the university of nowhere. The consequence is that the causes they espouse become more and more ridiculous and unhinged.

by the way correlation isn't causation, you might want to brush up on your knowledge of statistics in research.

So no one prepared to define trans yet again?

Funny that.

This thing that makes men the most vulnerable and become 'women' from the point of view of single sex spaces.

So many so busy defending the rights of something they can't even define, how peculiar.

TWA men. It goes with the discription - axiomatic.

No, I can’t give examples of those but awful enough where it would make a fragile or vulnerable woman asking for help being mocked feel extremely low. I have not seen threats on Reddit either

Do you realise it’s a children’s book series?

The murder and suicide rates for trans people are heartbreaking.

You must be absolutely devastated to hear that the murder rates for non-trans people are universally at least an order of magnitude HIGHER than that of trans people. Every murder is a tragedy but you must be pleased that trans people are the safest demographic when it comes to murder.

I mean, I’ve posted lots of factual information on this thread. So far I have been called a “Meninist” and compared to the kkk. I’ve no doubt there’s more to come.
We’ll let others evaluate the maths shall we.

I think some people use "concerns" to hide <insert minority> phobia.

Then they whip up people who have genuine concerns in order to support their anti-minority stance. No matter what the reason, minorities are the only losers in that situation.