To feel everyone is anti trans?

[Kitjo]

I'm well aware of current US views led by Trump - but are these views generally held/supported in the UK? Of course I understand opinions on NHS gender reassignment funding, as well as controversies over trans women in sport. Needless to say I'm fully aware of concerns over women's safety issues. Are there any sympathisers or supporters out there? What about trans masculine folk who are surely no threat to women's safety or sport? None of these people would choose such a hard life, socially, financially, physically, mentally, emotionally... am I alone in thinking a bit of kindness and compassion towards the trans community might be appreciated for the massive personal struggles they have to face? I am open minded to hearing and understanding your views.

No. That's just bullshit trying to justify a particular agenda. Listen to people with DSDs and stop bringing them into these arguments. They know they are either male or female. Most trans people are not people with DSDs (although they do love to lie about it) so I don't see why it even figures into a debate on trans.

Sex is not a spectrum.

Men aren't a minority though, no matter what they think of themselves or what they wear.

If I said what I really feel about anyone who displays such a blasé attitude about rapists in toilets such as this poster I’d get banned.

Actually most olypian women used to have a ‘scientific’ test to confirm sex until, for some reason, the IOC withdrew them. The consensus over recent years amongst athletes, women specifically, is that they absolutely support and want a cheek swab test to be carried out… because they already have lots of other scientific tests taken, quite routinely, as part of their sport’s regulation.

Not everyone is anti-trans. However you have to understand that it's become almost trendy to be trans, and a lot of young people are getting sucked into thinking they're something they're not.

Being a young person is confusing as heck, and in addition to this they have people on social media saying they can identify as x, y or z - and it's predominantly rubbish to get clicks and interaction.

There are always people who genuinely feel they've been born into the wrong body. There always have been. If it is a genuine feeling, then yes, see a GP, talk it through, get some counselling and - if you decide - you can go ahead and get a sex change.

I can't imagine anyone refusing to accept someone doing this, and calling them by their new pronouns.

But what is hard to accept is people saying "I am they" or whatever other pronouns have been popularised by social media. You have young people changing their names to absolutely ridiculous things. Teachers are afraid to say things like "girls v boys" or even "come on boys" to a group in the playground. It's madness.

In years to come we will be horrified by what was made to seem acceptable here.

The only characteristic that matters is gamete type. It is the only characteristic of sex you share with an apple tree or spider.

“That’s just bullshit, stop talking about this” etc etc.
That’s the reaction when one tries to reason and explain.

Nothing you’ve posted has been factual. It’s getting boring now. Flat Earth 101.

Examples of death and rape threats

Putting aside the desperate need to find minuscule sex differentials to change the goalposts of simple sex characteristics, how does this relate to transitioning socially? Regardless of the mechanics of our bodies, gender is based on social expectations of sexes. When explaining why they knew they were ‘in the wrong body’ (an offensive description in itself), it is never ‘my body feels like it’s due to menstrual every month’ but always ‘I liked everything girls are supposed to like dolls and dresses and pretty things’. Human biological sex is as any other mammal - in 99.9% of cases typical physical development of male and female sex. In terms of human gender transition, it requires medical intervention and an active mass belief system to see that person as the gender they choose because they have developed as typically as the fore-mentioned 99.9% of human mammals into their xx/xy sex.

If it was truly the case of ‘sex is more complicated than that’ surely over hundreds of years in scientific development this would have shown itself sooner that humans are a special kind of mammal with multiple sex descriptors despite only showing the usual physical signs of two sexes.

Because everyone knows that sex ultimately boils down to which gametes you produce. You know that, but you want it to be more "complex" to justify your belief that trans people can change sex.

The only characteristic that matters is gamete type?

Why? Who decided this? On what basis? Plenty of people don’t even have gametes. Why have you decided this is the most important characteristic of the body?
Factually it’s not how sex is assigned medically and legally in all kinds of cases.

Apologies for quoting you again, I was a little facetious in my last reply.

I feel the need to address what you've said. The terms are not already clearly defined. I say this because I've been following the debate for a number of years now and I have not come across the terms you have used here, which is why I said your post needs clarity.
I haven't seen transgender female. I am familiar with transwoman and trans-identified man to refer to a biological male. I haven't seen transgender male. I am familiar with transman and trans-identified woman to refer to a biological female.
Your use of the terms female and male are confusing.
Female and male refer to biological sex, and not just in humans, do they not?

Is there now more new language/terms to throw into the mix?

Those statistics contain numbers from e.g. Brazil, where a high number of trans identified men are prostitutes. Prostitutes of either sex have a higher incidence of crime against them and are more likely to be murdered. In the UK something like 130 women are murdered a year, usually by a man they know well. There have been about three trans people murdered in the last decade, not because they are trans but for some other reason e.g. Brian Ghey was murdered because he was next on the list of two mentally unstable teenagers who got a kick out of murder, not because he identified as a girl.

Why should feelings trump facts and reality all of a sudden? Who decided this, and why do we all have to go along with it?

ok, name another consistent characteristic of sex that you share with an Apple tree?

As I said. I explain. People respond “that’s not true”. Then insult me. QED,

Some people live very sheltered lives. Someone was attacked where I live recently - a lone woman in the woods. Someone was attacked in the previous place I lived - a 16 year old girl alone in the woods.

Me and my DH went for a long walk recently, somewhere really remote, and there was a lone male standing in the middle of a wooded area - not walking, not sitting, just kind of loitering. Gave me the absolute chills.

You should feel cautious when you're alone in wooded or remote areas, unless you live in some Upper Class Utopia, where crime never happens, and the men are all saints.

You also seem to be suggesting in your post that you peed in the woods. So, you've been in the woods alone, with your knickers down? You've obviously never been attacked by a man (I have). That's great for you, but you don't get to tell other women (who haven't been as fortunate as you), that they have no right to female only spaces. Try to look beyond one's own self.

I think that's what some posters on these threads are hoping for.

It's obvious this is for shits and giggles with some of them. And not only on threads dealing with this particular issue. Certain user handles are predictably familiar.

Debunking your opinions and counter arguing, and that’s what they are - opinions that you are presenting as fact - isn’t insulting you. Learn the difference.

I'm fairly sure it's Men's Rights Activism.

I think women had gained too much ground.

Time to make a subset of men 'the most vulnerable' and remove women's rights wholesale in the process.

Then there's the Queer theory stuff and big Pharma seeing $$$$ in keeping people on unnecessary life long medication.

Lots of strands of stuff going on.

What do you think it should be based on then? Do you think there should be infinite sexes based on all the little quirks and mutations that various human bodies sometimes develop? How is that more helpful than the current understanding of sex?

if you want to change the terms you need to be able to state your case.

Actually they don’t. They come from an American crime survey vs a small survey of trans people who collectively experience 16 episodes of violence/victimisation. The report also does not understand the importance of confidence intervals as if you look at the actual paper you will see their assertions are wrong.

This data relates to the UK and comes directly from the CPS:
https://www.cps.gov.uk/crime-info/hate-crime/context-and-characteristics-hostility-towards-sexual-orientation-and-transgender-identity

‘plenty of people don’t even have gametes’?

you are the product of them- which is what defines your sex