Made me feel uncomfortable should I make a complaint.

[Singlemamabear]

Hi, my 5 year old dd has been seeing a male dr for autism. We’ve gotten a diagnosis and went in to see the dr for a meeting. He done a physical exam, her height, weight etc.
he then said that in the previous appointment he wasn’t able to check her skin and needed to do it so I agreed. He checked her skin and then attempted to take her knickers off which I could have done ? And if he’s checking her skin why did he need to see her genitals? I stopped it there it made me feel uncomfortable. What does a test for autism have to do with her genitals ?
am I being unreasonable? I hope I’m just overthinking because of my own trauma but he did makes me feel abit uncomfortable… he also commented on me and my daughters lips… I really hope I’m over thinking

Sounds strange with no explanation and no chaperone OP

Child not chips.

This is definitely something I would be reporting if ony to get clarification as to why. I cant think of any reason whatsoever where this would be required in the case of autism.

It did cross my mind given autism presents with behavioural issues, could he be doing general checks about the possibility of parents going along with the no gender upbringing & he was making sure the child was definitely a girl, especially if it was a private consultation with no records available. It seems far fetched but nothing surprises me in this respect nowadays. I am not suggesting for a second this is your situation OP but if this is something this doctor wants to clarify I'm just wondering if its a possibility.

Oh OP of course you’re not a failure! You’re doing the best by your daughter by making sure she’s seen by professionals when needed and then by flagging up concerns. You’re exactly the kind of mum all girls need and she’s very lucky to have you.

I haven’t read the full thread yet but yes, report. At best this is a huge failure of communication on the part of the GP and that is totally unacceptable. Very concerning behaviour that needs checking out. Are they still allowed to work alone?

Are you making an assumption that he intended to look at her genitalia? Isn’t it possible that he may have been removing her underwear to look for cafe au lait spots in the groin area, as described by a PP?

I agree that you should make a complaint as he didn’t offer a chaperone or clearly explain what he was doing or gain your consent. He’s very much in the wrong and I hope he’s disciplined accordingly. I would just be a bit careful about jumping straight to “He’s a nonce who wanted to look at my daughter’s genitals”.

I have two children with an ASD diagnosis and I have NEVER had to have their skin checked and certainly never had to have their genitalia examined.

This is really alarming and you are completely right to get this investigated.

I have to admit I agree with everything you have said here too although I would still wish more clarification.

glad you have reported.

In my experience Dr’s never do anything to you that you can do yourself or in the case of a child they get you to do it.

eg. they say to me - can you roll up your sleeve (for blood pressure check) rather than grabbing you and pulling up your clothes.

for myself when i was ill in hospital if needing to access to my central line etc in chest they always asked before touching me.

both my kids whenever they needed examining by medics the Dr’s / nurse always said ‘can you take his jumper off mum / can you pop his tshirt off mum?’ Or they asked my children directly - ‘can you lift your tshirt up so I can listen to your chest?’ We s as l were clear what and why .

they never just took it upon themselves in routine appointments to undress either me or my child.

good clinicians always ask and explain - attempting to pull her knickers down with no explanation is NOT on.

I hope they investigate properly and fully. These things often get swept under the carpet and I really hope by you speaking up and complaining he will be stopped from doing this again or anything else to vulnerable children.

This

I agree with this. I think it's very strange to assume he was trying to examine her genitals when he had already stated that he was checking her skin. I'd been seeking clarification in the first instance and then making a complaint based on his lack of explanation etc.

I ment child there was a child that went to the same SEN school born without an anus. Obviously if a newborn has no bum hole and can’t poo that’s a problem and need sorting asap.

A Consultant Community Paediatrician diagnosed my 5yr old Grandson and she certainly didn't need to remove his clothing. This is disturbing and you definitely need to report to the GMC.

I was thinking he may have been checking for signs of EDS, but the not asking and not having a nurse present is just not right. You are right to complain and have this investigated, even if there’s nothing amiss it’s bad practice.

Is this an NHS doctor OP?
Let’s see if anything comes of your complaint (I really hope it does) and there’s not any kind of cover up or excuse.

I’m sorry this has happened to you and your DD OP.

My DS was never asked to remove any clothing in any of his ASD assessments. In my job I read many ASD assessment reports and I’ve never seen any reference to a physical examination.

I'm glad you are making a complaint.

You said he was doing a physical and also a skin check? Yes he should have been more clear and told you what was happening etc but why would you automatically jump to something seedy.

People saying it never happened to them with an autism diagnoses, sure but he was doing a physical? Nothing to do with the autism?

As previous posters have mentioned there are legitimate reasons to be looking at skin as part of a neurological/developmental assessment for kids. Mainly involving looking for cafe au Lait spots which can be indicative of neurofibromatosis. It can also present with clustering of these marks and freckles in the groin so it may have been these that he was specifically checking for. If he is a paediatrician he may just be doing a very thorough assessment of the presentation.

That said, regardless of his reasons, he has made you uncomfortable by not adequately explaining this or checking in, and so it's absolutely right to raise this as a complaint to be looked into. I just have seen some of your comments about feeling like you should have stopped it or feeling awful, and I wanted to say please don't automatically assume this was something nefarious. You've done nothing wrong at all.

Right. hang on. Slow down. When you say he 'attempted to take her knickers off' can you be a bit more specific? Was he inspecting her skin at this point? Was she facing towards him, away from him, or laying on his examination couch?

Did he mention needing to see her genitals or did you just assume that he was trying to see them? Is it that he just pulled her pants down a little at the back (if she was facing away from him) in order to see more of the skin beneath the upper edge of her pants? Especially if he was looking for a continuation of a line of moles. You say he actually tried to take her knickers off. Are you quite, quite clear that this was his intention?

I don't understand why it would be necessary at all to look any skin around her knicker line as part of an autism check up, but I am not a doctor. Either way, especially without a nurse present, it seems foolish to attempt to go anywhere near a child's knickers without asking you and explaining why first.

Yes I agree the police need to be called. Even if what he did had a reason (it doesn't) he needed to explain what he was about to do.

Certain birth marks can be associated with developmental disorders. I've just read a mum who was asked to note/detail any birth marks on her child for an autism assessment.
I assume these birth marks can be anywhere (my DD had birth marks on her lower back which are common in children of mixed heritage and go away by a certain age normally - which they have with her). They were only visible when her nappy was changed when she was a baby, and though they went away before she was potty trained, they would have been roughly under her pants when she was.
The doctor should have told you, and explained why.

I had a lump on the top of my leg checked by a man at the hospital and a woman came and sat in.

What the fuck is this man doing opening himself up to this?

I haven't been asked if I wanted a chaperone when my children have been with me. That's only when you are alone with the doctor.

You might like to read this:

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/neurofibromatosis-type-1/symptoms/

Why would you call the police ? He’s a doctor. The choice for chaperone is usually a member of staff or your own companion - the childs’ mother was there to advocate, so why the need for an extra chaperone ? As several people have said, cafe au lait marks on the skin and clusters in the groin area can be signs of other associated conditions. Why not ask a simple question - ‘why are you doing that’? And wait for the answer. The reason is likely totally legitimate but in this case done clumsily - but why jump straight to nonce ? I despair of the way this country is going. When we’ve rendered the medical profession scared to even look at us the wrong way we’re going to end up with sub standard healthcare. What then ? Sue for negligence when it’s our own paranoia that’s responsible?

This. In my GP surgery you are given the option of a member of staff as chaperone, or your own companion. OP was there to advocate for the child, so why do people think a chaperone was necessary as well ?

doctor here…

Firstly, I am so sorry you’ve both been through this. It is absolutely not a reflection on you as a mother so please do not think this.

was this NHS or private?
what specialty was this doctor - dermatologist/endocrinologist/urologist?

There’s many genetic syndromes that have ASD and skin conditions as part of them - in many of them the genitals are small/large/intersex. It isn’t part of most nurses scope of practice to check for these & nor are they trained to do so (unless they are advanced nurse practitioners). Full physical examination in such cases, as well as bloods are necessary to get to the correct underlying diagnosis.

BUT…for any kind of intimate examination of a patient of ANY age, the doctor should have asked first and offered a chaperone. This is in the GMC good practice guidance for ALL doctors.

You should put a complaint in or at the very least raise concerns. I suspect you were seen in a hospital outpatient setting - go via the PALs route as it is the most effective. It is highly unusual that no other staff were there.

my advice is - whenever you see a doctor - firstly check that they are a doctor, ask them their name, grade and specialty (tbh they should do this anyway). I never take offence at this and actually prefer it when patients double check for clarification.