To ask what your neurotypical view is… What is normal?!

[2024namechanger]

My children are currently being assessed and whilst we don’t have a diagnosis, my dd has a lot of medical involvement and we have been told to prepare for ASD diagnosis (absolutely welcome this for her). She is mid teens and I had no idea when she was a child. After going through the child developmental assessments I realise that this is large part due to:

Me really struggling with social development as a child, blaming my mother, and ensuring that I taught my daughter how to behave (read:mask)
Me assuming I am totally normal and telling my daughter x y z was normal - I’m like that too!
Me having absolutely no clue as to what life is like for the NT.

I have no diagnoses. I am certain I have ADHD and will probably get assessed as actually I think it’s making me unwell - I can’t switch my brain off. I have ND traits and would be surprised if this added up to an ASD diagnosis. But I am also really struggling to work this out as I am not sure what normal is. If I am autistic it doesn’t have a big impact on me, and I have learnt multiple coping mechanisms, and avoidance! but would bring comfort.

So, if you are NT, how do you view the world?

[I hate it when people ask and don’t share their stuff. There was a lot in my childhood - I was very weird but I also had trauma at a young age and was lied to about family issues so whilst most things didn’t make any sense, there was a reason for that. I am big on self reflecting and have tried to change and adapt hugely as the years go on. I’m in my 40s now and have lots of kind and lovely friends.

SO Things I struggle with (eliminating ADHD stuff)
Going somewhere new/entering a room/bar/restaurant on my own. Making a phone call (I have to plan it, it’s stressful. If unexpected I can’t do it. I can answer a call much better - when it’s being led by me it’s harder). I can make calls as part of my job with little issue. Understanding social niceties/manners/how to begin convos, lots around this. I jump in the middle and forget to say hi. I try and be super polite and am referred to as blunt. Have friends who love me but am ‘marmite.’ Have a low tolerance for liars. Have rigidity but have learnt to understand that rules aren’t everything, have become a leader at work where you have to sometimes act outside of the rules. This took me years to learn, but I did it. Understanding text messages. I spend a lot of time ensuring I answer every element as I have got in trouble for being self involved and not responding to a key issue. Moods. I can really lose my temper. I try not to, but it actually makes me feel quite unwell as I get so angry. Often fantasise about living alone as it would better than the highs and lows I have. Understanding about other people. I tend to move people out of the way. I honestly would never do this thinkingly, and would be horrified if someone did it to me, but I have to admit I do this all the time. If I need to get across the kitchen I’ll just move someone. It makes sense in the moment. In retrospect that seems insane as I KNOW I should just say excuse me. But I don’t. I think I am getting worse around this.

However flipside I am very confident and can present to a room of strangers. I ran a children’s choir quite happily, singing in front of little kids. Hated the thought of it the night before, in the morning - huge stress. Loved it when I was actually doing it. Performing was horrifying but I just looked at them. Couldn’t fathom how they had the guts to face the audience! Can’t imagine I showed this. At work I am applauded as an excellent communicator. I am articulate. I can immediately pick apart a problem, find the fault and correct. I am often praised for ‘getting it’ and great understanding when working with other agencies. I loathe confrontation in my personal life but have no issue at work and will call someone out if needs be. I have to sit on emails for 24 hours to ensure I’m appropriate however, and have been advised to keep my mouth shut in the moment. Which I can do!!!

I thought my struggles were everyone’s but I read something recently which made me question this. I know at work that no one ever wants to call for the takeaway so I assume they don’t want to for the same reason? But maybe it’s different? What’s it like for you???

PS I’m not asking for thoughts on my ND or otherwise - you can’t diagnose over the internet and I have left everything out that I ‘know’ is a trait. I’m more interested in knowing if everyone feels like me. I felt very different to others as a kid but a lot more normal nowadays. So just curious I guess.

I am pretty certain I am NT but I don't think any of the above is true.

Some NT people are naturally sociable and might seek out and enjoy social situations. Some might prefer smaller groups where they know everyone well. Some might be more introverted and prefer to avoid them. All within the bounds of "normal".

Similarly, saying they "don't think twice about what they’re going to say or how they’re going to say it" is a massive generalisation.

People and their response to social situations vary enormously.

Also I think even NT people have to develop these skills, rather than being born with them. When I was younger I found some social interactions harder and would wonder how on earth my mother could strike up conversations with complete strangers with apparently no effort. But it does come with age and experience and increased confidence.

In short, OP, I think it is impossible to answer your question as there is probably no typical NT way of feeling. We are just all different.

Or extroverted but with atrocious social skills and always reading situations wrong!

Thanks for this, it does make more sense if I think about it that way. I do listen to some autistic people's channels on YT and I can emphathise with a lot of what they feel.

Why does everyone need a label these days?
It’s human nature to have assorted reactions to everyday circumstances, it’s just another gravy train that everyone wants to get on, everyone now seems to need a diagnosis.
People would do far better just getting on with life, accepting everyone is different and stop looking for problems.
Human nature itself is meant to be divergent or we would all act like robots.

In the world of NT people lazy is lazy, 'I have not done the job properly' is 'I have not done the job properly', 'I behave like a swine' is 'I behave like a swine', i.e. there is nowhere to hide - one can't do a shitty job and hide behind a diagnosis. It is tough in the NT world, trust me. However, recently, we have had a positive development in our NT world - we can blame things on 'depression'. He had an affair, because he was depressed as his wife did not understand him. Another one - may I please have an extra 45 minutes in my exam as I am depressed not because I did sweet fa during term-time, but because I feel depressed.

What is normal? I'm just me

Thank goodness for that.
Me too!

'Moving people out of the way' - is this a ND thing? My long term partner does it to me and it drives me mad, he's definitely on the ND spectrum but undiagnosed (and uninterested). I usually let the ND traits slide and just mark them off as features in my head, as it makes me more tolerant of them.

It probably depends a lot on the person. My dd is ASD and I would say I am too. I still have to consciously do things like remember to ask people how they are rather than just launch into what I want. Im not sure if everyone does that or not

No, it’s a twat thing.

@2024namechanger So, if you are NT, how do you view the world?
I've got lots of autistic friends. This has led me to often reflect on ways that I'm different to many of them. I don't have a fully fixed routine, day to day I'll do different things as a whim takes me. I'm happy with changing plans. I like to try new foods, new recipes, I rarely order the same thing twice in a restaurant. I'm open to reading about opposing views— I don't feel morally contaminated. I like to get outside, go to new places, I don't like to spend all my time online. I don't like to rewatch the same TV shows. Rules and procedures bore me. I'd rather find a solution to things that is quick and good enough.

I'm not saying all autistic people are the opposite, only that my experience in these ways is different to the autistic people I know. Also, as I said upthread, many "NT" people would absolutely not experience life the way I've described, as there's a huge spread of personalities and perspectives in the world beyond just NT vs ND.

I think we are at risk of pathologising individual differences / normal behaviour which is concerning. I feel like people are very quick to analyse and label themselves and others.

Everyone has different brains and personality traits. It's all a spectrum so this isn't really helpful, a lot of people have traits of autism it doesn't mean they are autistic. I hate making phonecalls I get anxiety about things and also over think. I don't think this is uncommon we don't need a diagnosis for every person. We are all different op we aren't robots there is no perfect brain.

It's a misconception that NT people are all socially adept. Plenty of NT people are loud, obnoxious, rude, blunt and constantly interrupt people. Some are also very shy, quiet and anxious.

My ADHD diagnosis suddenly made things make sense. I spent most of my life believing that I either suffered from depression or bi polar syndrome. I engaged in bizarre, risky behaviour, couldn't understand simple things that everyone else just seemed to 'get' (rules of games etc) and quite often felt left out. I just thought it was me being weird. Then my daughter sought diagnosis as an adult, and I said to another daughter, 'do you know, sometimes I think I might be ADHD' - her reply 'd'you THINK?' All my kids had worked it out but nobody had bothered to mention it to me!

This.

I’m recently diagnosed autistic. I can relate to some of what you say but not others and I think some is just down to personality rather than ND. The thing that stuck out to me though is you teaching your dd to fit in (mask). My dd has just started reception and I find myself doing this a lot. I’ll tell her how she should respond to situations, give her different scenarios and tell her what to say. It’s not that she herself has show any issues with social interactions, it’s just I somehow assume she does as I didn’t realise my experiences weren’t normal. I have to try really hard to stop myself doing this.

I don't like a doing lot of the things you struggle with OP, but as far as I know (or care) I am NT. What does NT really even mean anyway? Unless a person is obviously ND by their behaviours then which of the rest of us can say we are definitely ND or ND - and does it even matter anyway unless we are trying to access some kind of relevant healthcare or support?

I have ADHD and honestly I find that this happens a lot on social media relating to ADHD/ASD - there are memes or jokes or whatever suggesting that the ADHD/ASD person has struggles which are entirely unique and for NT people that thing is perfectly easy and natural and they just breeze through life and everything happens perfectly around them.

It is a bit of a bugbear honestly - it squashes something complex into something ridiculously oversimplified, it encourages in-group vs out-group thinking, and discourages empathy. The fact is whatever it is - social skills or organisation or whatever, everyone has to learn it and everyone has a different starting point. ASD and ADHD aren't the only possible thing to affect those, they are just one factor which makes it especially difficult (so much so both things factor into the major symptoms).

I don't mind it when it's clearly a joke but the problem is that the jokes get repeated so often that it seems to give the impression to some people that being NT is literally being a superhuman, and if you struggle with organisation ever then you must be ADHD.

I am not aiming this at OP but at some of the responses. I can't really help with the above question, and think it's interesting to discuss the real lived experiences people have.

I have no idea whether I’m NT or ND - not a thing when I was young enough for anyone to be interested. I hate social occasions, have never had many friends, was always the one ‘in the kitchen at parties’, had difficulty understanding social/work structures and hierarchies. Spent all my working life working with people, and was fine in uniform, but not when I was ‘me’. I don’t like phoning people. I’m very self conscious and don’t like getting up in front of people. I need time alone to wind down. I have the radio on when I’m going to sleep to block out the intrusive thoughts and constant going over things I have got wrong throughout my life. I do however manage life ok and have worked since I left school, married, had a family, seem largely to get on with people, feel relatively normal. I think I’m an introvert with social anxiety and an inferiority complex

This and comments from @Lentilweaver and @FastFood tell you a lot about the NT perspective.

ie they don't experience any of the things the OP mentions to a degree that it disables them

Don’t they?

OP, I can relate to much of what you say - you could be describing me, in fact. To me, it all sounds perfectly normal. I've never been diagnosed as ND, and don't regard myself as such. I hate labels. I am definitely an introvert though, so I wonder if a lot of it is just down to different personality types, rather than being either NT or ND. I don't think anything you've done will have affected whether or not your daughter is diagnosed with autism.

These things aren’t always easy for NT people. My brother close in age is dyslexic and I used to help a lot with his schoolwork and essays. I realised one day that he thought this was easy for me. It wasn’t - I still had to put in a lot of thought and effort (on top of my own work) and found it generally exhausting. It wasn’t easy for me, it was just easier.

I find socialising and networking draining and need time alone to recharge. I think this makes me an introvert. That said I don’t struggle with ‘reading’ people. That does seem to come naturally so maybe that is easy for me. I manage people at work and several have talked about being ND and how I can support them. They will tell me as though it’s a big reveal but to be honest I’ve never been particularly surprised (I do appreciate it’s hard to tell your manager I’m not criticising that). Was blindsided when my sister told me she had an autism diagnosis, though.

Indeed. I am NT. But I have constant internal narration/conversation to the extent it can stop me from sleeping.

The obsession with labelling and pathologising behaviours and experiences is too much.