To ask what your neurotypical view is… What is normal?!

[2024namechanger]

My children are currently being assessed and whilst we don’t have a diagnosis, my dd has a lot of medical involvement and we have been told to prepare for ASD diagnosis (absolutely welcome this for her). She is mid teens and I had no idea when she was a child. After going through the child developmental assessments I realise that this is large part due to:

Me really struggling with social development as a child, blaming my mother, and ensuring that I taught my daughter how to behave (read:mask)
Me assuming I am totally normal and telling my daughter x y z was normal - I’m like that too!
Me having absolutely no clue as to what life is like for the NT.

I have no diagnoses. I am certain I have ADHD and will probably get assessed as actually I think it’s making me unwell - I can’t switch my brain off. I have ND traits and would be surprised if this added up to an ASD diagnosis. But I am also really struggling to work this out as I am not sure what normal is. If I am autistic it doesn’t have a big impact on me, and I have learnt multiple coping mechanisms, and avoidance! but would bring comfort.

So, if you are NT, how do you view the world?

[I hate it when people ask and don’t share their stuff. There was a lot in my childhood - I was very weird but I also had trauma at a young age and was lied to about family issues so whilst most things didn’t make any sense, there was a reason for that. I am big on self reflecting and have tried to change and adapt hugely as the years go on. I’m in my 40s now and have lots of kind and lovely friends.

SO Things I struggle with (eliminating ADHD stuff)
Going somewhere new/entering a room/bar/restaurant on my own. Making a phone call (I have to plan it, it’s stressful. If unexpected I can’t do it. I can answer a call much better - when it’s being led by me it’s harder). I can make calls as part of my job with little issue. Understanding social niceties/manners/how to begin convos, lots around this. I jump in the middle and forget to say hi. I try and be super polite and am referred to as blunt. Have friends who love me but am ‘marmite.’ Have a low tolerance for liars. Have rigidity but have learnt to understand that rules aren’t everything, have become a leader at work where you have to sometimes act outside of the rules. This took me years to learn, but I did it. Understanding text messages. I spend a lot of time ensuring I answer every element as I have got in trouble for being self involved and not responding to a key issue. Moods. I can really lose my temper. I try not to, but it actually makes me feel quite unwell as I get so angry. Often fantasise about living alone as it would better than the highs and lows I have. Understanding about other people. I tend to move people out of the way. I honestly would never do this thinkingly, and would be horrified if someone did it to me, but I have to admit I do this all the time. If I need to get across the kitchen I’ll just move someone. It makes sense in the moment. In retrospect that seems insane as I KNOW I should just say excuse me. But I don’t. I think I am getting worse around this.

However flipside I am very confident and can present to a room of strangers. I ran a children’s choir quite happily, singing in front of little kids. Hated the thought of it the night before, in the morning - huge stress. Loved it when I was actually doing it. Performing was horrifying but I just looked at them. Couldn’t fathom how they had the guts to face the audience! Can’t imagine I showed this. At work I am applauded as an excellent communicator. I am articulate. I can immediately pick apart a problem, find the fault and correct. I am often praised for ‘getting it’ and great understanding when working with other agencies. I loathe confrontation in my personal life but have no issue at work and will call someone out if needs be. I have to sit on emails for 24 hours to ensure I’m appropriate however, and have been advised to keep my mouth shut in the moment. Which I can do!!!

I thought my struggles were everyone’s but I read something recently which made me question this. I know at work that no one ever wants to call for the takeaway so I assume they don’t want to for the same reason? But maybe it’s different? What’s it like for you???

PS I’m not asking for thoughts on my ND or otherwise - you can’t diagnose over the internet and I have left everything out that I ‘know’ is a trait. I’m more interested in knowing if everyone feels like me. I felt very different to others as a kid but a lot more normal nowadays. So just curious I guess.

Wow! Something is clearly going on for you here because that feels uncalled for.

I've no idea whether Im ND or not but DD is diagnosed, alongside lots of other family members who display many traits.

No one knows how to do things without being taught though. Ofcourse once taught an NT person may be more comfortable than a ND person.

Socialising and communicating properly are skills that are taught and model as we grow up. The people who do it naturally have seen it through the people around them.

There was a show where they switched private school and state school pupils. The private school had every lunch sat down at a table with students taking, they regularly held lunch and dinner events with alumni or careers people sat at a table with a group of students and having proper conversations. The state school students were completely out of their depth, didn't know what to do or say, what topics were appropriate etc but they soon got the hang of it over a few weeks. Those skills they could be taught, my autistic daughter can and does learn skills like that, in that situation every one scripts and 'fakes it till you make it'.

So some of your examples I think are just a lack of exposure as a child to learn the skills which makes you uncomfortable not all but quite a few of them.

Speaking as an adult with ADHD who was diagnosed as an adult, it made the world of difference to me. It’s easy for you to sneer ‘you’ll realise you’re special?’, but actually it was a hugely profound realisation that I don’t struggle with aspects of my life because I am lazy, thoughtless, selfish or stupid. I struggle with aspects of my life because my brain is fundamentally different to the brains of the people the world is designed to accommodate.

You can’t begin to imagine the impact it has had on my mental well-being, self-esteem and emotional welfare to have a solid explanation to challenge the poisonous voice I’ve had inside my head for my whole life telling me I’m useless, thick and selfish for not finding things easy.

I'm ND and so is my daughter, we are both very social. That's not what defines Neuro divergence.

I've got no idea if I'm NT or not. I do display some of the behaviours you mention, but not everything. Even amongst NT people you will find those who are not fond of social interactions, or hate making phone calls, or overthink replies. The one about moving people out of the way is so strange though - the only person I know who does that is my severely autistic, non-verbal nephew (scary as well when a 6'2 man moves you out of the way)

It does seem that way. Who can switch their brain off at will? Life is damn hard a lot of the time - it is called the human condition. Indeed, there is much literature and art on just how difficult being human is.

I don't think any of the traits you describe as having yourself would make you ND. I think they are pretty common in most people. And I wouldn't say that teaching your DD how to behave was teaching her how to mask either.

Exactly. My DH is not social at all, but he is not ND. He is just a genuine introvert.

I'm NT.
I hate phone calls because I've taught myself to respond to body language/facial expressions. So phone calls always feel as if I'm missing something...possibly drawing the wrong conclusions. Which stresses me as I hate being wrong/making mistakes.

I tend to be slightly late so I don't have to be the first in the pub/restaurant and going alone is really tricky for me.

Have a horrendous temper and a real fear of losing control.

I've learnt how to interact and have been on many interviewing technique courses over the years so now I just refine those principles slightly depending on who I'm talking with.

Do you not think it's possible that the reason there is so much art and literature on how hard life is, is because ND diagnosis did not exist/were not as prevalent historically? Is it not better that we now live in a society who understands this better, and can diagnose and help, rather than people living in suffering?

What the OP means is there's a constant voice in her head with different thoughts like an ongoing narration or conversation 24/7. Which NT people don't have.

The thing is, there's not one "neurotypical" way of being. Think about it like height: there's an average height for a population, but the majority of people aren't that exact height. Being diagnosed with ADHD or autism is a bit like being extremely tall or short, you have traits that are present in the whole population, but are concentrated in you.

Someone without an ADHD or autism diagnosis can be neurotic, gregarious, close-minded, adventurous, or shy, etc., and that's going to impact how they experience the world quite differently to other so-called "neurotypical" people.

Of course we do.

This.

It’s also quite possible to be ND and extroverted, which seems to blow some people’s minds…

I do have that though. Mine is caused by anxiety.

Deficit in social communication is the biggest part of the criteria for an Autism diagnosis. ADHD is different so it doesn't cover all 'ND', they do seem to get grouped together a lot now despite being different.

Autistic people could enjoy it but they won't do it in the same way an NT person would and for many autistic people socialising with non autistic people isn't very enjoyable as there is usually a big difference in the way each one interacts or the autistic person is masking which is exhausting.

Mine is caused by being a human person.

Neurotypicals are not 'normal', they are just the majority neurotype.

Referring to NTs as normal, is a bit like refering to heterosexuals as being normal, in relation to gay people. It's offensive.

Hmm not sure about that as mine is fairly vocal , I narrate constantly. I used to when a child have conversations in my head and count the letters of the words I was saying to myself on my hands. I sometimes start to do it now but I catch myself and it stops or my interest in doing it fizzles out. Although that could be down to trauma and anxiety as well, that’s the challenge I think there’s quite an overlap.

Honestly I don't know if I am NT or not, I know I'm not ADHD. I do quizzes to see if I might be ND and get scores that are just below the cut off point. I know there's no 'a little bit autistic'.

I don't struggle in social conditions in terms of picking up on what people mean, or their body language, but I can struggle trying to fit into conversations. I absolutely hate making phone calls but have learned over the years to write down a 'script' first and that has helped me a lot. I hate public speaking and won't do it, dropped out of a Ph.D because of it. Have learned to be less rigid in my attitude over the years.

I don't move people out of the way but can be very shy piping up to say 'excuse me', or indeed 'pass the salt please', might even avoid going in a certain direction so I don't have to do the former! Which is nuts. I'm not a confident person in most areas, wish I could be. I'm very sensitive to sounds and hated scratchy clothing as a child, or labels, and I need a LOT of alone time otherwise I feel overwhelmed and eventually will have burn out and maybe even a melt down, but I've avoided that situation for quite some years now, thankfully.

Now I don't know whether this is just anxiety/shyness/lack of much social interaction as a child, or what it is, and at this point in my life I don't suppose it really matters whether I have a label or not! Just trying to get along as best I can.

@JLou08

All ND people are different and all autistic people are different. Absolutely not a homogeneous group.
I very much enjoy socialising, have lots of friends, from all walks of life, both NT and ND.
I don't get my energy from other people though, I need to be alone and recharge and I know my own limitations with socialising.

I know there's no 'a little bit autistic'
@AlteredStater You're right that autistic people often don't like that framing because they find it's used to invalidate them (like, if lots of people are "a little bit autistic" and can manage to do X, why can't you do X), but it is literally true that people can have autistic traits without being autistic. For example, someone can be monomaniacally focused on some special interest, or have extreme sensory sensitivities, or massively hate change and love routine, without being autistic. Such a person is going to have a lot in common with someone diagnosed with autism. That's because traits of anything are seen across the whole population.

Similarly with ADHD. Not everyone who is always losing their keys, or loses track of the time, or can't sit still etc. is going to meet the whole criteria for diagnosis.

I am NT.

I am fairly confident in a work context and can present and make jokes etc. I tend to rehearse, plan and organise meticulously.

But put me in a room in a more social context, maybe a cousins engagement party, and I’m a mess. I can’t hold a conversation. I’m extremely awkward. I say things that are so weird, but I can’t help it and I want to kick myself. I stumble over words. On one occasion got so internally panicked that I just dribbled mid conversation when trying to think of what to say. It’s so bad, that I tend to avoid any social interaction that isn’t 100% necessary. I’d just rather be on my own or with my immediate family. I could never comfortably go on a weekend away with friends or even a night out with friends, in fact I have no real friends, because everyone ends up thinking I’m weird and awkward…or I accidentally offend.

So, it’s just goes to show doesn’t it, that we’re all different and all struggling in our own ways.

I have at least one autistic child and I agree with you. My daughter's picking over social mistakes she's made and I'm like... you were 8! Or 14. We all make mistakes, some feel more embarrassed by them in retrospect than others. You don't have to have had perfect social skills from birth and positively revel in making phone calls to strangers to be NT. It's getting to be that no one is allowed to be anxious and/or introverted without being labelled autistic these days. It's particularly rife in teens too - they are all pop diagnosing each other.

OP my DCs' SENCO told me she was taught in.recent SENCo training that a third of girls are now thought to be ND. That almost rewrites the rule book. If it's really that common then it is very much part of "typical experience". By all means seek an assessment of you wish, but also crack on with being just as you are and teaching your daughter the same because it IS part of the normal spectrum of ways to be. You are not an outlier, diagnosis or not.

I'm NT (afaik) and can be charming one on one but am quiet and struggle a bit in a group setting - I tend to be either too quiet or over share. I'm not great at small talk. I find it tiring being around a group of people and need time to recharge. I think some of the comments on this thread about NT people are referring to extrovert NT, I'm a fairly classic introvert although love connecting with people in small groups or one on one. I also dislike making phone calls and presenting (but can do these if needed). I'm generally good at understanding other people, interpreting facial expressions, social norms, reading the room etc though.