Page 9 | That picture of the Southport killer

User09678 · 2025-01-20T17:11:20+00:00

That has been circulating today. Remember that sweet boy that was in all the reports at the time? The one who looked about nine? Can anyone think of any other serious criminal who has pictures of them as a child out in the press?

JHound · 20/01/2025 18:40

WeCantGoOverIt · 20/01/2025 18:36

It was not terror related. For it to be terror related there has to be motive. Why is that hard to understand?

Why then did he plead guilty to two terror charges too?

Because he committed two offences under the terror act in terms of materials he held. It is an offence to possess an Al Qaeda manual and it is an offence to posses ricin.

But for the act to be considered a terror attack there has to be a terror motive.

If I decided tomorrow that I really wanted to know want was in the Al Qaeda manual I could go online and access a copy. That will mean I have committed a crime under the Terrorism Act but it won’t make me a terrorist.

This is really not hard to understand so I am not sure why you are struggling?

Bramblecrumb · 20/01/2025 18:40

Do people mean the mugshot? That wouldn't be released until he pled/was found guilty so wouldn't be released until now? Or is this a photo that formed part of the evidence. There weren't many photos of him around before then - newspapers absolutely would have ran with them if there were...

Coldanddamp · 20/01/2025 18:41

The entire basis of the claim that he was a Muslim seems to be based on the fact that he had a copy of the Al Qaeda training manual.

Do you not think the specifics of the attack was in part why people assumed it was terror related initially? Targeted young girls, knives, lone wolf etc.

cakeorwine · 20/01/2025 18:42

NoSoupForU · 20/01/2025 18:40

This post is in incredibly poor taste.

The trial date was set before Trump's inauguration date was set. That he pled guilty at a pretrial hearing was unexpected. There really isn’t a full presence in court for such hearings because they're something of a nothing.
No conspiracy there.

Mug shots aren't released until guilt is proven precisely because they're photographs taken of people in situations of extreme stress so typically they won't exactly look tip top.

The picture that was circulated at the time was taken from social media. It was a group photo taken in school. By all accounts his family didn't really use social media so there wasn't really anything else for the media to find and use.

He isn't an Islamic extremist. He isn't even Muslim. He's a black Christian.

People did notice the red flags. He was referred to Prevent multiple times because of his fixation with violence. By all accounts there was involvement from the authorities at various points preceeding his crime too. There is absolutely no suggestion whatsoever that his home was anything other than stable and loving. His elder brother thrived, was seemingly a very intelligent high achiever who was popular at school.

Whether he has mental health issues I do not know. I'd assume his behaviour isn't exactly indicative of somebody mentally well, but I'm not an expert.

And as for the riots, there is no excuse for the violence portrayed by people who did not know or understand the facts, but merely used it as a vehicle to push their agenda against foreign people and those with brown skin.

It's all about biases, people responding to what they want to believe, people reacting emotionally and being fuelled by what other people are saying - who they want to believe.

And then people who should know better not using their position to quell those rumours because it just helps them - and also not wanting to admit they got it wrong and jumped to conclusions.

JHound · 20/01/2025 18:43

Coldanddamp · 20/01/2025 18:41

The entire basis of the claim that he was a Muslim seems to be based on the fact that he had a copy of the Al Qaeda training manual.

Do you not think the specifics of the attack was in part why people assumed it was terror related initially? Targeted young girls, knives, lone wolf etc.

Not really. That also applies to the Plymouth shooting and nobody thought he was a terrorist.

WeCantGoOverIt · 20/01/2025 18:44

If a child is simply badly brought up, that is one thing but this young person is clearly not well, not wired right you might say

So you are saying he should have been placed in a secure mental hospital for life? Do you think that of every other violent criminal too? That they are simply ‘not well’?

cakeorwine · 20/01/2025 18:44

Coldanddamp · 20/01/2025 18:41

The entire basis of the claim that he was a Muslim seems to be based on the fact that he had a copy of the Al Qaeda training manual.

Do you not think the specifics of the attack was in part why people assumed it was terror related initially? Targeted young girls, knives, lone wolf etc.

Sadly I can remember other tragic cases where people have been targetted by a disturbed lone individual in the UK that weren't terror attacks. I am sure others can as well

WeCantGoOverIt · 20/01/2025 18:45

Bramblecrumb · 20/01/2025 18:40

Do people mean the mugshot? That wouldn't be released until he pled/was found guilty so wouldn't be released until now? Or is this a photo that formed part of the evidence. There weren't many photos of him around before then - newspapers absolutely would have ran with them if there were...

There has been a court drawing for some time.

Tittat50 · 20/01/2025 18:46

soupfiend · 20/01/2025 18:39

Theres thread after thread after thread on this website with parents of disabled/LD and ND children on their knees being attacked by them day in and day out. Seeking support for specialist placements, specialist intervention and specialist schools. Nothing available.

If a child is simply badly brought up, that is one thing but this young person is clearly not well, not wired right you might say, he has a number of conditions which has led him to be focussed and obsessed with violence and killing. No amount of parenting is going to change that for him

Show quote history

I wholeheartedly agree in every way. The first thing that struck me here was the fact he was suspected ND with no doubt some really concerning mental health issues. His mental status is to me appearing to be the driving issue, rather than any ideology he grabbed hold of. Knowing what we as parents know - we get blamed for so much thanks to systemic gaslighting by Authorities. Prejudice works in all directions.

I wonder what was going on for his mum throughout the years dealing with this. I need to read more on this story. Reliable sources - I have no idea where they are.

soupfiend · 20/01/2025 18:46

BRL2 · 20/01/2025 18:07

he committed several criminal offences at his former school. He also booked a taxi armed with a knife intending to travel to his former school and commit a mass killing. His dad talked him out of it. Not clear whether his dad reported this to the authorities.

Show quote history

What do you think happens to young people who commit crimes like this? They're often NFA believe it or not, or if they are prosecuted in the end, a referral order is made

Just because you dont read about it in the paper, doesnt mean there arent lots of young people committing crimes like this up and down the country. Its not uncommon Im afraid

Walrusdress · 20/01/2025 18:46

They wanted to gain sympathy from the likes of some people on here, and it worked quite well.

Coldanddamp · 20/01/2025 18:46

Not really. That also applies to the Plymouth shooting and nobody thought he was a terrorist.

Disagree, The Plymouth shooter was a shooter

Digdongdoo · 20/01/2025 18:47

Walrusdress · 20/01/2025 18:46

They wanted to gain sympathy from the likes of some people on here, and it worked quite well.

Who is "they"?

MrsSchrute · 20/01/2025 18:47

soupfiend · 20/01/2025 18:39

Theres thread after thread after thread on this website with parents of disabled/LD and ND children on their knees being attacked by them day in and day out. Seeking support for specialist placements, specialist intervention and specialist schools. Nothing available.

If a child is simply badly brought up, that is one thing but this young person is clearly not well, not wired right you might say, he has a number of conditions which has led him to be focussed and obsessed with violence and killing. No amount of parenting is going to change that for him

Show quote history

Most sensible post on this thread so far.

Iwanttoliveonamountain · 20/01/2025 18:47

He did not have a mental health issue,

luckylavender · 20/01/2025 18:48

JandamiHash · 20/01/2025 17:40

YANBU, it’s disgusting that the focus at the time seemed to be on “Let’s make him out to be angelic”. And then it turns out after people had been imprisoned for “falsely” linking him to Islamic extremism, it turns it he was an Islamic extremist. Starmer is a joke, far more concerned by not upsetting people than protecting children

Honestly, stop this now.

Walrusdress · 20/01/2025 18:48

Digdongdoo · 20/01/2025 18:47

Who is "they"?

Show quote history

People like you.

Mickelodeonssnazzypot · 20/01/2025 18:48

SilenceInside · 20/01/2025 18:06

@oakleaffy facially he looks exactly like a young adult version of the child. Of course he's going to look odd in the picture of him when he was under arrest, he's clearly got many different issues and wasn't being particularly cooperative. He wasn't posing for a modelling head shot.

When you consider that we knew from the reporting that in the years since the school boy photos, he had been severely mentally unwell and isolated, well, the image from the police is entirely consistent with that.

It's super bizarre that these images are something people think is worth discussing.

Well, given that this is the last face those poor little girls saw, it is worth noting that posting photos of him as a child next to their photos was crass and tone deaf. Even if they were the only available photos of him at that time-it created a disturbing impression of a child-like killer.

cakeorwine · 20/01/2025 18:48

Iwanttoliveonamountain · 20/01/2025 18:47

He did not have a mental health issue,

How confident are you in saying that?

Goody2ShoesAndTheFilthyBeast · 20/01/2025 18:48

If he was searching US mass school shootings from age 13 then he needed serious mental health intervention. Where were CAMHS for a start? He clearly needed substantial psychiatric intervention from a young age. It's clear there were significant and repeated failings here by all involved.

YoureNotGoingOutLikeThat · 20/01/2025 18:49

JHound · 20/01/2025 18:40

Because he committed two offences under the terror act in terms of materials he held. It is an offence to possess an Al Qaeda manual and it is an offence to posses ricin.

But for the act to be considered a terror attack there has to be a terror motive.

If I decided tomorrow that I really wanted to know want was in the Al Qaeda manual I could go online and access a copy. That will mean I have committed a crime under the Terrorism Act but it won’t make me a terrorist.

This is really not hard to understand so I am not sure why you are struggling?

Edited

Show quote history

Indeed. Students studying counter terrorism are reminded by tutors not to download the manual as it can get them into a lot of trouble. As you say, having a copy of it, doesn't automatically mean that someone is a terrorist.

BlueSilverCats · 20/01/2025 18:49

WeCantGoOverIt · 20/01/2025 18:36

It was not terror related. For it to be terror related there has to be motive. Why is that hard to understand?

Why then did he plead guilty to two terror charges too?

Possession of the Al Quaeda manual is a terror offence . There's no way around it.

ThreeLocusts · 20/01/2025 18:49

Glad to see that the majority of posts appear to be pushing back against the conspiracy theorizing at the beginning. As PP wrote, it is in incredibly poor taste to try and construct a bias in favour of young black men or Muslims or God knows what other group out of the trial date or the photos.

Children died. Better not to instrumentalise that fact, not for any agenda.

WeCantGoOverIt · 20/01/2025 18:49

The first thing that struck me here was the fact he was suspected ND

So suggesting he had a certain faith or race or offensive, but it is fine to blame his crime on being ND? Your prejudice and biases are showing.

MrsSchrute · 20/01/2025 18:50

WeCantGoOverIt · 20/01/2025 18:44

If a child is simply badly brought up, that is one thing but this young person is clearly not well, not wired right you might say

So you are saying he should have been placed in a secure mental hospital for life? Do you think that of every other violent criminal too? That they are simply ‘not well’?

I think this shows that there needs to be massive investment (not that there is any money!) into children's mental health, support for neurodiversity etc, so that things don't get this far.