That picture of the Southport killer

[User09678]

That has been circulating today.

Remember that sweet boy that was in all the reports at the time? The one who looked about nine?

Can anyone think of any other serious criminal who has pictures of them as a child out in the press?

Evidence that he was an Islamic Terrorist ?

Don’t say “al qaida manual”, you can buy that jn British bookshops…

The (debunked many times) rumour about KS being the lawyer of Mr Rudakubana is so easily proven to be incorrect it’s laughable that people still throw it around.

The cases in question were brought to the High Court in 2003 and centred around 6 asylum seekers who were arguing against new immigration laws brought in by Tony Blair. KS represented 5 of the 6 parties - a 26 year old Iranian man, two Angolan men who were 22 and 33, a 16 year old girl from Ethiopia and a 42 year old woman from Rwanda. The 6th party, represented by different lawyers, was a 20 year old Kurdish man.

As it happens, as Mr Rudakubana came to the UK in 2002 and presumably claimed asylum upon arrival, the new immigrations laws the case was based around wouldn’t have applied to him because they didn’t come into play until around January 2003.

All this information is readily available by the way, if you ‘do your research’.

I’d be very surprised if there weren’t MH issues if reports that his behaviour changed hugely at 13 are true. That would seem to be unusual.

JHound
Black people who commit violent crimes are also more likely to be the focus of a press release than their white counterparts.
Between July and December 2019, the Met Police issued news releases about 72 people who had been sentenced for violent offences such as murder, rape and violent robbery.
Of this group, 50 people were Black, equating to 69% of all the press releases in this category. The force published news about just 22 violent white offenders being sentenced.
But this bears no resemblance to the number of people who were actually sentenced during this period.

It does bear some resemblance to homicide stats though, e.g.

At the time of writing (March 2021),106 people had been convicted of murder or manslaughter for killings that occurred in 2019 [Greater London]. Of these 106, race could be identified in 91 cases. Of the 91:

• 59.3% (54) were Black;
• 22% (20) were White;
• 16.4% (15) were Asian;

https://aoav.org.uk/2023/london-murder-capital-a-year-of-violent-deaths-examined/

Homicide would generally receive more press attention than other types of violent crime.

I'm just identifying the two scenarios @soupfiend

1. is where he should have been in secured accommodation for mental health treatment but this wasn't made available

2. is where a very clear and dangerous behaviour was prevented by the father. But my concern would be, why did nothing happen after that? Surely it should have prompted some response by the authorities? Or did the family simply not tell anyone?

Families are sometimes less than candid because they don't want their loved ones to be detained away from them. So they don't say anything. I've seen that for myself

I’d be very surprised if there weren’t MH issues if reports that his behaviour changed hugely at 13 are true. That would seem to be unusual.

So much speculation

If there's reliable evidence to say he is, I think it's important we highlight the reports that he was an extremist across other ideologies also, maybe more so. That needs to be referenced and not left out.

Omission can lead to assumptions.

@KnittyNell he's not an Islamic terrorist. read this report from BBC News today which explains why.

Goodness there is some tin foil hat bullshit on this thread.

The judge*, in fixing the trial date, will have had regard to (a) the defendant's custody time limit (b) availability of counsel (both sides) and witnesses and (c) when a trial of the estimated length could be accommodated in the trial calendar. What won't have been thought about for a single second is the inauguration of Donald Trump in the USA.

• the government doesn't play a part in fixing trial dates.

I dont know about this case but CAMHS certainly are very very shy of giving any formal MH diagnosis pre 18. We work with lots of young people who later go on to be formally diagnosed with PD but despite 'knowing' this for many years of their teens, we're not really able to say that because CAMHS wont diagnose. (and yes for the pedants PD has an ambiguous status within MH)

But even with anxiety and depression its hard to pin them down for a formal diagnosis

Where have I made excuses? Would you mind answering my question?

Father stopped Southport killer from going to former school a week before attack www.bbc.com/news/articles/cqx949jzjlyo

No we don't. But to diagnose a serious psychiatric disorder under 18 is rare. And yet in this case, it may prove to be a critical point.

I can't remember the initial reports but no. I don't think the cases bear much similarity do they? But tell me what you think I'm missing

Look, I know how it works. I had a friend who was exhibiting weird behaviour, we all were thinking its getting freaky and its not going to end up well. My other friend had a chance to talk to his therapist - but the therapist said my mate was OK, and there are no reason for him to be sectioned. Even though he was already arrested twice.

He did not kill anyone, but he did end up in prison, and on very strong medication. It fucked his life up, and he never fully recovered.

What really freaked me out is the total lack of care and support available for people with mental health problems. There was nothing we could have done. You only get noticed if you do something terrible, and you only get treated if you have money.

There should be better help available for people like this, with recourses to investigate, to suggest treatment, to supervise. Like, if someone flags this person up, he stays on the radar. I know it is not a failproof solution, but it better than nothing.

He wouldnt have been detainable at all for MH sectioning. Thats the point.

Crikey, this thread! Is this what the rioters were telling each other on Twitter?

Why is it all so focused on Kier Starmer do you think? He seems imbued with almost magical powers according to all this.

I, like, many others, have done the Prevent training because it's a duty at work. I looked it up and there are almost 7k referrals each year. But the PM had read them all (or any of them) in his first few weeks of office and knew this person in particular? Apart from anything anything else, just this, just this one thing is so implausible. I can't understand how you go forward from that into all this.

So let’s see your evidence for the very serious allegation you made earlier that a senior UK politician helped settle the Rudakubana family in the UK. You must have it at your fingertips.

If you can’t share it, you’re clearly a wingnut. And funnily enough that false allegation is spread by far-right accounts on x dot com.

Next post: The Evidence 🥳

Thankfully these cases are pretty rare - it reminds me in some ways of the lengths that were gone to in an attempt to prevent Jonty Bravery's violent offending - 2 to 1 carers in a specialist foster placement and he still managed to throw that little boy from the Tate Modern

There seems to be a lot of evidence out there, including from counter terrorism, that he was not an Islamic terrorist.

I would assume they have access to more evidence than you do.
I would assume they try to form a non biased approach to this.

What do you know that they don't?

Sorry I missed the second bit of your post for some reason

So the father prevents him doing this thing. Lets say dad rings police or 'logs it with 101' as MN might have advised him to do

Whats the next steps, what do you think the police will do?

No crime has been committed, no crime is in the process of being committed.

Whats the next step then?

@soupfiend he could have been, if he posed a risk to others. And it seems he did. I know this is rare, btw