That picture of the Southport killer

[User09678]

That has been circulating today.

Remember that sweet boy that was in all the reports at the time? The one who looked about nine?

Can anyone think of any other serious criminal who has pictures of them as a child out in the press?

The picture is actually really scary and chilling similarity to the Valdo Calocane murder. There is an issue amongst BM with mental health/drug use and recruitment to Islamic extremism. This young man grew up in a Christian family but I know of many BM with similar upbringing who have defected to Islam.

....and you know this because?

Are they?
Or are they saying that having mental health issues can increase the chances of someone carrying out such awful events?

Or do people think that having mental health issues can, in some people who have them, increase the chances of committing such awful events?

@HollyBerryz I'm not sure what you think i'm offended by? i'm just stating the obvious. Why do you think so many murderers go to prison and not hospital? Do you think the whole judicial system is wrong?

Have Al Qaida got a specific problem with Taylor Swift?

If he was fat or red headed he would get abuse but because he is darker skinned no one would dare criticise him which goes to show that some people are easy targets

What other photos should they have used? The police mugshot was only released today.

Also that’s a pretty striking / frightening mugshot. But on its own wouldn’t tell us anything about his guilt or character. If we could tell that from mugshot photos we wouldn’t need trials at all.

True, though having ASD does mean you have more vulnerability to mental health issues. DS has been diagnosed recently, so I am very aware of this (he is also a teen). He's the gentlest of young people, and his interest is to become a police man.

Now there may be various reasons for MH vulnerability, for example anxiety or depression (if you find it hard to socialise or be socially isolated). It's not a given but you are more at risk.

Autism isn’t a mental health condition.

The whole life tariff just means there is no possibility of applying for parole. I'm guessing he will likely get a minimum term of 40 years, maybe 38 for pleading guilty, and that doesn't mean he will be allowed out at that point. There's no remission on the minimum term, either — good behaviour just gets you a better chance of a shot at parole. But I suspect that his crimes are so notorious that he won't ever be let out.

@HollyBerryz yes, they are, by saying he had mental health issues, rather than calling him what he is - a racist, misogynistic, extremist child murderer.

Why do people jump to extremes on here every time. People re not so simplistic.

Is it wrong to say every Muslim = bad. Yes! Is it right to say wtf is going on in some towns and does Islam as a religion play some part in that in this particular case and it's handling? Well yes I think it might. Let's explore. ( I'm not talking about this case)

Is every Autistic person a nutjob killer? No! Can we say, something's about being ND in some cases might mean one is around much greater risk of co morbid MH conditions that mean they're going to potentially be at risk of certain things potentially? Well yes. And that includes being exploited and radicalised by ANY terrorist ideology if the ingredients of said life are such.

Do I sometime think oh no, a mass school shooter - please don't be ND. Yes I do! Because I know it might raise questions but mainly because it could feed into a collective prejudice.

We still need to talk about it without been shut down! This debate here is healthy and informative - for me at least.

( My son is ND).

There is no suggestion he was Muslim.

So nothing you hear now or in the future could contradict your belief that he was an Islamic terrorist?

Autism is not a ‘mental health issue’

Or are they saying that having mental health issues can increase the chances of someone carrying out such awful events?

Are you suggesting being autistic does this?

I am not trying to mitigate the evil he did. He is evil however I do believe that anyone who behaves the way he has has been failed. It was known that he had a fascination with violence and death - that is not normal. Do I think it should be treated as a mental health issue and because it meant he was a danger to other people he should have been sectioned - yes. Those poor girls would still be alive but due to years and years of cuts we simply don't have the ability to provide beds for everyone who needs it.

Do I believe everyone with mental health issues could behave like him - No. That's why we need robust policies which can be acted on when someone is identified.

Or are they saying that having mental health issues can increase the chances of someone carrying out such awful events?

Is there data to suggest the above?

Why is Starmer being blamed for not knowing about him in advance of the crime? The PREVENT referrals were prior to him being PM and they concluded no further action. I bet there are hundreds of referrals a week that are concluded as no further action.

Also, it's common that the facts of a case aren't reported until after a court case to ensure that juries aren't influenced by anything outside of what is said in court. Giving any specific information about potential motives could result in it not being possible for the trial to go ahead

It would look like someone producing ricin, downloading Al Quaeda material and murdering small children, in the name of furthering some supposed aims related to Islam.

I don't know if that was this person's aims, and neither do you. Al Quaeda material can be helpful to murderers of all types, no matter their political and religious beliefs and aims.

The two aren't mutually exclusive.

Well said.