Is it really that wrong to want for your country what Trump stands for?

[Anniedash]

I know that there are plenty of threads on Trump at the moment, but most of them are designed to rubbish the guy. That’s been done to death in the last 10 years.

He has still won two presidential elections so perhaps it’s time to move the discussion on a bit.Let’s put aside Trump’s personality, bluster, and whether he will deliver or not, for a second.

Is it really so wrong and bad to want to go for what his core message is? Why is the far right label used so liberally and will we ever see a government in this country which can tackle this madness -

A stop to or huge reduction in illegal immigration

Putting your own country first ahead of internationalism. It’s not a novel idea and certainly not a byword for automatically wanting war. In fact Trump’s argument is that war is bad

Saying no the climate hysteria. Climate change is real but climate emergency seems to be a made up concept to simply tax people to death to re distribute taxes to government lobbyists. Why should people accept being poorer in the name of this dangerous ideology

Putting a stop to woke madness. When did it become ok for state sponsored mutilation of children? Men pretending to be women in prison and hospitals getting access to women’s spaces. People being sanctioned do not using the correct pronouns

Driving the economy forward and putting a stop to endless freebies for those who have no intention of contributing to the system and refuse to work because they are sad.

The fact that someone as eccentric as Trump has to fly the flag for common sense ideas shows you just how batshit the political discourse has become.

An Israel spokesperson confirmed it wouldn’t have happened without Trump

Talked about an offer you can’t refuse type situation

No, it's not wrong, OP.
Currently, it would be our only chance.

Meh, OP was going on about 'climate alarmism' yesterday on another thread too. She's on a roll.

It is not correct to say that globalism is a right wing ideology. It can be left or right.

International socialism = pre-Stalin communism, or old-fashioned Labour
National socialism = Naziism

International capitalism = modern neoliberalism, i.e. economically right wing (this is what is "normal" now, I think this is why you interpret globalism as right wing)

National capitalism = this is what Trump means when he talks of implementing tariffs and trade barriers.
The idea is to stop the outsourcing of labour to China and other cheap places, ad to stop the importing of cheap goods that wreck the working class at home. Prices for goods will rise, but so will wages for the workers (in theory).
Henry Ford famously understood that you have to pay the workers enough so that they can buy one of the cars they are making: your workers are also your market.

Note - this post looks through the lens of economics. The terms 'left' and 'right' are hopelessly confused and confusing if you try to mash together identity/social issues and economic issues into a simple line from left to right instead of a two-way grid of four quadrants (or 3d triple-axis model if you include the national/international dimension).

He’s a very patriotic narcissist. You can’t deny that he loves America and wants it to “win.” Of course his idea of winning may be different than yours and mine.

From an American perspective, I think it’s a case of: He may be a son of a b1tch, but he is our son of b1tch!

Who wouldn’t want someone to fight doggedly and shamelessly for one’s interests? It’s radically different from the UK where voters often feel their interests come after global virtue signalling on net zero, imperialism reparations, etc. The UK has been stagnating since the global crash. Better someone like Trump than someone like Milei…let’s not get as bad as Argentina- the medicine is much worse.

I live in Australia and bushfires have always been part of our landscape. Climate change, however, is making things difficult to predict because floods and bushfires are getting more devesting.

How you combat a bushfire depends on resources. I live in Blue Mountains in Sydney and allocation of money and resources to the bush fire brigade are essential to prevent loss of life and properties. As an anecdote, the BFB does a Christmas's appeal in my suburb and this year, the first time ever, did not accept money. The government had met all their funds need.'

It makes a hell of a difference.

I hear Trump banging on about various things illegals, financial and mostly rebuilding America.
There was someone in europe in 1933 who promised so much about making Germany a strong and great nation again. People believed everyword he said and watching old films and documentries were pretty much in awe /brainwashed by him. Look how that turned out.
I'm not saying that's going to happen obviously, but when you have Trump, Musk and Putin in effect running the world who knows what will happen.
Too many male mega egos and they all seem to hate women.

If you elect a fascist, people will call you a fascist. You seem to want to be absolved of this. No one will absolve you. History won't absolve you. The people you put into concentration camps won't absolve you. God, if you believe in him, won't absolve you either.

The UK has been stagnating since cutting off trade with its nearest neighbours by exiting the EU, facilitated by pro Putin and Trump traitor Farage.

The stagnation started before Brexit. Arguably Brexit was a reaction to the pre-existing stagnation.

Quite. Hitler improved the German economy.

Yep, ditto

I don't get why it's so difficult to admit Trump is a fascist or a despot. He is both.

People learn nothing from history and keep making the same mistakes.

14 years of Tories who are just out for themselves will do that to a country.

America is a mess, the UK is a mess as is France, Germany and the rest of Europe. We need a new way and we can't help the world until we sort out our on mess. Yes we need to start with limiting the number of people arriving in this country. We need to tax companies fairly and we need to put an end to the free for all. We need to pull together and make this country great. Every single one of us needs to play our part and if you can't find it in your heart to love our country, leave and help one you can love. We don't need people who run our country down, you wouldn't allow someone to stay in your home whilst disrespecting your family.
If Trump can help America get on its feet again then fair play. Biden has done nothing to help the American people.
Many people mention Trump eroding women's rights, yet many of those same people want to flood our country with men that treat women as third class, they are happy to march on behalf of countries that not only won't give women any rights but also stone them to death.
Trump is far from the worst world leader but read MN and he is the Devil but is he really?

Fill your boots if you want to live somewhere where people are moving towards Taliban style rights for women.

No, a Trump-like figure would be the final nail in the coffin for the UK simply because we are absolutely not in the position to be the world's bullies.
Contrary to what some analysts seem to believe, my gut feeling is that Trump means everything he says about foreign policy (Greenland, Canada and Panama). He views the rest of the world as potential strategic assets to acquire or sell off (see my earlier point about running the US like a corporation). To muscle in like that, you need to have the clout of a country the size of the US. For example, he has said multiple times that he wants to make the country self-sufficient in terms of energy supply. With his 'drill baby drill' mindset, and the idea to hoover up precious resources from, say, Greenland, and to regain control of the Panama Canal, his strategy might even work.
WE here in the UK would NOT benefit from similar policies because it's like comparing apples and carrots. We are a small island that hasn't been self-sufficient in 200 years and the only way we can prosper is to play a shrewd game of alliances - not through populist bombast! We don't have the tools and leverage we did in the days of the British Empire.

They probably don't even know any history before about 2015.

Talking about history reminds me of the myth of Cassandra...

Yes she accused me of climate hysteria. All I said was sea levels were rising, I didn't say anything about how we should be addressing it. It was far from hysterical

I agree that it’s a lovely simple message of ‘putting your country first’ but that doesn’t sit well with me when countries like the UK and the US have meddled incessantly over the years in other countries. Especially us here in Britain! We literally invaded and colonised dozens of other countries and also accept migration when we feel like it/need it: therefore we cannot just choose to pull up the drawbridge when we feel like it. I also think the hysteria about gender has gone too far. In fact I am amazed and bamboozled about how many mumsnetters are obsessed with this. Transgender people are a tiny minority of people who deserve thoughtful care - not some menace to society. I think people are reading too much Daily Mail.

I wonder how this would go down if you said it to the the celebrating crowds in the US. People interviewed sounded jubilant enough.

Not everyone is celebrating sure, but for those who are it’d be quite something.

No-one is in a position to be isolationist and protectionist as we live on a planet with billions of other humans. Not China, not Russia and not the US.

Of course the plutocrats like Musk who are the real puppetmasters and have more money, power and influence than many countries are happy to have idiots like Trump doing their work for them, and they fear the power of countries working together in bodies like the EU to make sure they pay their taxes and that there is nowhere to hide their wealth. Their business is turning people against one another so we look away from the real enemies of the people - those with vast wealth and influence who like to hoover up more of our money while people fight for the scraps.

And by the way, I am not nostalgic for the days of empire and colonisation, just talking from the pragmatic perspective of power relations...