Is it really that wrong to want for your country what Trump stands for?

[Anniedash]

I know that there are plenty of threads on Trump at the moment, but most of them are designed to rubbish the guy. That’s been done to death in the last 10 years.

He has still won two presidential elections so perhaps it’s time to move the discussion on a bit.Let’s put aside Trump’s personality, bluster, and whether he will deliver or not, for a second.

Is it really so wrong and bad to want to go for what his core message is? Why is the far right label used so liberally and will we ever see a government in this country which can tackle this madness -

A stop to or huge reduction in illegal immigration

Putting your own country first ahead of internationalism. It’s not a novel idea and certainly not a byword for automatically wanting war. In fact Trump’s argument is that war is bad

Saying no the climate hysteria. Climate change is real but climate emergency seems to be a made up concept to simply tax people to death to re distribute taxes to government lobbyists. Why should people accept being poorer in the name of this dangerous ideology

Putting a stop to woke madness. When did it become ok for state sponsored mutilation of children? Men pretending to be women in prison and hospitals getting access to women’s spaces. People being sanctioned do not using the correct pronouns

Driving the economy forward and putting a stop to endless freebies for those who have no intention of contributing to the system and refuse to work because they are sad.

The fact that someone as eccentric as Trump has to fly the flag for common sense ideas shows you just how batshit the political discourse has become.

Ikr the amusing part is Trump will find him a small bit player if anything at all. It was like listening to a bromance - one sided

I don’t think Trump actually believes in many, if any, of his own policies. My view is he considers it all a game to be “won” by whatever means necessary. He is still dangerous because of that. But I think there are things he won’t take forward/endorse further once fully in office.

Vance is an entirely different sort of problem, he really does believe those ideologies and is very dangerous as a result. Trump dying and Vance stepping in is the real nightmare fuel.

edited for typo.

That’s his job no? America voted for Trump, we need to try and do business with his government for the next 4 years whether we like it or not.

I would say this is grown up governing, rather than throwing our toys out the pram and shooting ourselves in the foot for the next 4 years we need to do business with the democratically elected leader of one of the worlds wealthiest and most powerful countries and one of our closest allies.

@LookItsMeAgain Great posts of yours

The posters on this thread I'd like to read the article I linked, most likely won't but this bit hits home

If Musk’s programme succeeds, we hardly have to imagine its impacts on human life and the living world, because for the past year a similar plan has been enacted in Argentina. There, Javier Milei has been waging his class war on behalf of international capital. The results include a horrifying surge in poverty; a collapse in the number of people with health insurance, coupled with critical underfunding of the public health system; proliferating hate crimes; a coordinated assault on science and environmental protection; and a free-for-all for the foreign corporations hoping to seize the country’s minerals, land and labour.

Oh, and the general tendency to strip women of all their rights over their own body.

I'm pretty ambivalent about Trump - as the OP said, we all remember his last presidency which wasn't as bad as everyone predicted. But I do see the above parroted a lot - what exactly does this refer to?

So.. apparently it's too hard to ask people to consider his core message and criticise/approve of that without them being so beside themselves with rage they need to blow into a paper bag.

Clearly we're focusing on the wrong problem here. We need a leader who can ensure a good supply of free paper bags.

Why we voted for Trump: https://www.thefp.com/p/trumps-day-one-executive-order-male-female-gender-ideology-pronouns

@Alexandra2001 ,

You called my post ‘confused’ but you don’t seem very clear at all about either your views or definitions.

Secure borders is ‘right wing’ now because that is part of the accepted definition of ‘right wing’. The concept of right vs left wing is vague and is constantly shifting.

When I was young and, up to relatively recently, right wing meant small state, low taxes and a respect and feeling of duty towards your nation. That was very much the Tory party under Thatcher. But, for my children, right vs left is very much about the ‘culture wars’, immigration and nationalism (maybe the one common factor).

Globalisation also has many strands, goods, labour and culture. It is hard to say which are left and which are right. But, recently, parties calling themselves right wing have been the ones arguing for more border control and, in Trump’s case, more self sufficiency in goods, hence the tariffs.

One of my favourite recent books was called ‘Citizens of Everywhere’. It was an analysis of why remainers totally failed to understand Brexiteers, but captures a lot of international debate at the moment. In it Gumbell posits that we have divided into two tribes: Citizens of Somewhere and Citizens of Everywhere (the liberal elite). The citizens of everywhere who are equally at home in the Four Seasons Paris, NY or London and love the freedom of movement and their cheap imported labour totally fail to understand why anyone would prefer loyalty to their local football team, the Union Jack, and traditional British food-and vice versa.

Trump’s appeal was very much to the U. S ‘citizens of somewhere’, tired of being despised and out competed for jobs by cheap immigrant labour. Whether he will serve this constituency well or the whole shtick was just a campaign to get back into power and keep himself out of jail remains to be seen.

I didn’t say it wasn’t his job to do that, I just found it amusing.

Trumps re-election has emboldened the religious far right and misogynistic idiots to bring in the chant of "your body, my choice" in relation to women's reproductive rights. That tells you everything you need to know.

He just stands for making white billionaires even richer than they are already. And keeping himself out of prison.

The point is that Trump/USA has to deal with the UK Govt, not Braverman or Tice or Tommy Robinson... Farage seems to have gone out of favour.

Lammy and Starmer met Trump last year, the meeting went well, isn't that something to be pleased about?

Even when the Tories were in, i wanted the best for the UK, its pity that as Reeves said on "Political Thinking" many people want her/Lab to fail, they want the UK to fail.

Trump doesn't believe in anything. He's a cheater with close links to Epstein while courting the Evangelical movement. He sells "make America great" when he's a doubled bankrupted inheriting millions from his family

He's a narcissist who wants glory. He's just the head of multinationals in control of the US. We all knew years ago that the President of the White House was nothing more than a figurehead. With Trump, the US have made it obvious to the rest of the world except the ones voting for him.

Not as bad as everyone predicted?
It ended in an insurrection, a coordinated attempt to overthrow - if not, at the very least, to compromise- democratic institutions. It's sad that so many people somehow still believe that Biden's mandate was stolen.

I agree that people want to hear a hopeful and positive message, but what Trump and people like Marine Le Pen and Giorgia Meloni offer are glib "easy" but actually facile and incompetent or draconian and horrific answers to intransigent problems.

I mean Hitler made German economic improvements for a time...

Plus the fact that Trump is a convicted criminal - a rapist and insurrectionist and should be in prison not the White House.

Just getting that in before he shuts down Mumsnet in the US.

Contrary to popular opinion climate change doesn't suddenly make things burst into flames and wildfires have existed for as long as humans have.

What it can do is affect rainfall and therefore make things dryer in summer so a fire started by accident (or as in Greece and the US started by devout climate crisis believers) can be more of a problem.

We have always dealt with them before by having firebreaks and in the worst case emergency services trained to deal with it.

Firebreaks seem too trivial to bother with and maintaining them costs money so they get neglected until houses burn down.

@Newbutoldfather "Somewheres" vs "everywheres" is the most relevant lens to understand all of Europe and North America today in my opinion.

I agree, I'm not sure if Trump is the man who will be the one to actually deliver, but as the catalyst for forcing that conversation and forcing the Republican party to re-align more in the direction of the Somewheres, I think he's been very effective. It will be interesting to see where his successor takes it.

I couldn't agree more, @TheOnlyLivingBoyInNewCross.

Plus the man has boasted openly about sexually abusing women - 'grab them by the pussy' - and mocked a disabled reporter. And he is a convicted felon who would also have been convicted of inciting the January riots in Washington after the last Presidential election.

What a prince.

Sure I want the best for the U.K. and I don’t recall any posts from you criticising the last gov.

Anyway pointless continuing with these posts

Oh, so these people had nothing to do with brokering the ceasefire deal? It was all Trump?

apnews.com/article/gaza-ceasefire-negotiations-mediators-3a646fe5606d87db767e8a434f7a5f74

In terms of what I think we can expect from this new mandate: I think the first time around was chaotic because he simply had to learn to do the job whilst on the job. He is a very determined man - that much is true - and he has spent the last four years working his arse off to get back into the job and circumvent the difficulties he faced in politics the first time around. So, I think he will certainly deliver a lot of what he's said he would do. Don't forget, he's a CEO, and he wants to run the country like a corporation (hence why he gets on well with the tech bros). He has managed to get his 'board of directors' fully on side (tech conglomerates, large swathes of the media, Christian churches etc.). Just... corporations are not run like democracies are they?

Yes had he not been elected, he would have been on trial for trying to over throw a democratic election.

He also took the USA out of the Paris Accord and will doubtless do again.

He can do as he wishes now, he cannot - i hope - stand again, so has no one to appease.

Withdrawal from NATO & stopping support for Ukraine are two things we should be worried about, at the very least, he will oversee tha partition of that country, doubtless done with a meaningless "security" package.

She means Trump is going to force them all to take his vaccine

Yes. The climate crisis is causing extreme weather conditions - droughts and flooding- which exacerbates wildfires. Displaces people. Destroys wildlife.
do we continue to ignore it then?

I think Trump’s unpredictability played a big part. American support for Israel was never in doubt under Biden or any previous president. Not so with Trump.