Is it really that wrong to want for your country what Trump stands for?

[Anniedash]

I know that there are plenty of threads on Trump at the moment, but most of them are designed to rubbish the guy. That’s been done to death in the last 10 years.

He has still won two presidential elections so perhaps it’s time to move the discussion on a bit.Let’s put aside Trump’s personality, bluster, and whether he will deliver or not, for a second.

Is it really so wrong and bad to want to go for what his core message is? Why is the far right label used so liberally and will we ever see a government in this country which can tackle this madness -

A stop to or huge reduction in illegal immigration

Putting your own country first ahead of internationalism. It’s not a novel idea and certainly not a byword for automatically wanting war. In fact Trump’s argument is that war is bad

Saying no the climate hysteria. Climate change is real but climate emergency seems to be a made up concept to simply tax people to death to re distribute taxes to government lobbyists. Why should people accept being poorer in the name of this dangerous ideology

Putting a stop to woke madness. When did it become ok for state sponsored mutilation of children? Men pretending to be women in prison and hospitals getting access to women’s spaces. People being sanctioned do not using the correct pronouns

Driving the economy forward and putting a stop to endless freebies for those who have no intention of contributing to the system and refuse to work because they are sad.

The fact that someone as eccentric as Trump has to fly the flag for common sense ideas shows you just how batshit the political discourse has become.

Sounds rather like when the Southport protests were immediately labelled as far right riots, but the Muslims armed with machetes in Yardley and the Roma in Harehills burning busses were demonstrations, and Sir Keir plainly used that language.

You lost me at 'woke madness'

True. However restricted code is generally considered normal in more informal settings, elaborate code would be expected from someone more in power/authority?

I think the context and content of his language rather than speech pattern is what makes him seem of lesser intelligence, but the use of restricted code could well endear him to the "everyday person" who therefore see him as a "normal" person "done good" in regards to business/wealth.

Obviously the fact he comes from wealth and has actually been a failure in many areas escapes a lot of his followers because they only see the fascia of his character.

The Southport "protests" where a feral crowd threw bricks at the police, set light to bins and tried to burn people alive - those "protests"?

The "protests" driven by lies on social media by people like Robinson, founder of the EDL. The "protests" where mosques were attacked and cars were stopped and people asked if they were British.

I wonder why Starmer called them far right?

Apologies if derxa has been around MN for years. Her post took me by surprise by the way she seemed to excuse Trump's speech.

I'm not a speech therapist, and my friend has more than 40 years experience in the field.

I will ask her about restrictive and elaborate codes in speech. I will in fact go to Google after this post. But the fact remains that effective communication means being able to give content to ideas, stay on topic, and be able to listen and answer back easily. Something that Trump is unable to do.

Missing the point completely - I wasn't defending the Southport "protests", I was pointing out the disparity between the Harehills and Yardly "protests". If one lot is labelled as a riot, then all three should be.

Illegal immigration makes up about 5% of the total immigration numbers every year in the UK.

A fair percentage of these people are genuine refugees. A fair percentage are young people escaping poverty in their own country to look for opportunities to work and make a life in the UK.

I think it'll be really hard to stop this kind of migration, and I'm not sure what you think we'd gain from it given that it's such a small percentage of these total immigration numbers, and given that the majority of those who come here by this route are young people willing to work and contribute to our economy.

The 'war on woke' is a war against progressivism. It starts from the premise that discrimination in sectors like employment, education, policing and healthcare is not a significant issue, and that therefore efforts to address it through legislation are unnecessary. The problem is that social research shows that racial bias and misogyny is common and for most of human history has had a damaging impact on the life chances of women and minorities.

It may be messy but overall he has an effective speaking style in that it cuts through

People pick up on key messages quickly and retain them, which is what politicians tend to try to do to win

It’s also worked for him in that he got the results in the last election

It was called the Harhills riot.and what happened in Yardly was a demonstration where some thugs from the crowd tried to cause trouble.

His speaking style may be effective some of the time, @EasternStandard - but at other times he rambles incoherently. My suspicion is that, when he is reading prepared speeches, he is fine, but when he starts talking extempore, it all falls apart.

I don't believe he has an effective communication style. He often doesn't make sense, keeps talking small simple slogans (which may be a political advantage in the US) but is unable to give a speech outlining minimal policy without short sentences.

Trump won't accept interviews except from his favourite journalists. He can't engage in any type of communication except the type he's used to and familiar with.

This is not effective communication. It may be in the US but not in Europe or Australia.

It is mixed which is what I meant by messy. He can ramble basically

At times he lands something that sticks, the delivery at the inauguration had some very effective lines - one in particular about not going to war was well done. Obviously someone else wrote that but even off the cuff there will be a line that lands

Politicians pay people a lot for that so if they can get some off their own bat it’s more useful than not

He’s running in the US so that’s what counts. He doesn’t have to appeal to anyone else to win.

Although he does manage to get other leaders to sit up pdq and notice major things such as stop fighting or tariffs

Delivering ideas in fewer words is a good thing generally. Hence why agencies are paid to try to do it

As for what works here we seem to be a bit in no man’s land. Each major party is polling at the same rate currently, some with Labour third

I wouldn't give Trump and the US a second thought if I didn't think he's an effective puppet in the hands of the multinationals behind him. Multinationals with the agendas and money to influence politics all over the world, including Canada, EU, UK and Australia.

He's the clown behind the far right push of global US politics.

This is certainly my business.

As you want, but it’s not your vote. And his style clearly does work in that it did the job.

I think you’re underestimating his role in winning too. Plenty are very loyal and that’s a personality thing. You can see it easily when people are interviewed and reacting

I know people outside the US can't vote. But at least on this forum we can openly express our views.

I'm worried sick about the new US administration. Frankly, I don't care what they do in their own country if the people vote for them.

I care about Trump talking about buying Greenland from an allied country like Denmark, and saying military intervention may be on the cards.

I care about him talking about integrating Canada to the US. A full independent country.

I care about refusing to rule out about military intervention to get back the Panama Chanel from Panama.

I care about the destabilisation of Elon and Trump interfering in internal politics in Europe, favouring extreme right parties.

You can keep Trump and his politics in the US. But he refuses to rule out military interventions on allied countries to gain resources financially benefitting the US, it's MY problem.

Who are you to dictate that someone shouldn't post their opinions on here, just because you don't agree with it! Typical lefty aggression with the standard accusations and name calling. IMO @RingoJuice Previous post made a lot of sense.

Typical right wing hectoring. Hasn't followed the conversation but just jumped in to stick up for someone with similar views.

I don't think people are ever going to agree on the subject of guys like Trump etc so it's best to just accept that we on here agree to disagree.

Where one person hears 'common sense' others among us think 'dangerous rambling egomaniac' - he talks about no wars and then seems determined to go after Greenland and stake rights in various places etc where there might be 'assets'.

At the end of the day it's up to the US how they vote and I admit the democrats in my opinion stood a rather nothingy candidate who spoke of joy and love and why she wasn't Trump -that doesn't win over the middle ground - America is very much a sell your own grandmother for a dollar country amongst all but the reasonably well off because it's hard going to 'get by' - little social back up despite people's comments about those getting 'freebies' -people will vote for who they think will put most money in their pocket and sadly in this case they think Trump will so overlooked the fact he has the ethics of an alley cat and a rather dangerous undercurrent of getting rid of opposition by freezing them out business wise and involving other egocentric players like Musk - I personally think it will go very wrong but we shall see

I will add one thing though and it's clear people like Musk have the cash to get a load of paid shrills out there spreading the good word and infiltrating forums with constant hatred of this that and the other- He is South African born and seems to have Nazi like genes in his blood and is more than happy like Hitler to use propaganda and disinformation to further his white supremacy influence. The same happened before the general election here , and he's made it clear he will give reform significant cash , so I take some of the posts with a pinch of salt and particularly people who post on nothing else but political issues criticising anyone not right wing and praising every move of those politicians who are -. Some are perfectly genuine and think that way, others I don't think are so genuine- . I wouldn't approve of using paid agitators by the way in any party -

"stood a rather nothingy candidate who spoke of joy and love and why she wasn't Trump -that doesn't win over the middle ground"

That's the impression you got from the media you looked at.

She actually spoke extensively about Democrat policies to bolster the economy and improve family finances - the policies already put in place by the Biden administration and the policies that she would pursue if she won the election.

Trump on the other hand engaged in constant demagoguery, as all fascists do. Every speech was about 'insane liberals', 'dangerous illegals' 'predatory' or 'tragic' transgender people. He spread a really harmful conspiracy theory about legal Haitian migrants, lied constantly about his record in office, and at times spoke complete and utter bizarre, rambling nonsense.

But both of them were talking to an audience where swing voters are overwhelmingly exposed to a media environment that amplifies right wing propaganda and disinformation.

The election also took place in a year when incumbents from around the world - from across the political spectrum - were battered at election or voted out of office, primarily because of the worldwide fall in standards of living caused by post pandemic inflation, which has been a problem almost everywhere.

And despite all of this Trump's lead was one of the smallest of any US election in the past 5 decades. (Not that you'd know this judging from the screaming about Trump's 'landslide win in the media).

They were far right riots and the muslims out in the streets in Yardley while wrong were out due to rumours that the far right rioters were gearing up to attack their neighbourhoods.

The riots in Harehill were never referred to as “demonstrations”.

"I dont think people are ever going to agree on the subject of guys like Trump etc so it's best to just accept that we on here agree to disagree. "

The mind boggles. He's so obviously a morally and legally corrupt person. Would you let him babysit your child, date your daughter, look after your bank account, take decisions about your personal health...? There's nothing controversial about this person. Nobody trusts him. Nobody who stops to think what he really stands for agrees with him.

People are just against the other alternatives at the moment and they are making up all sorts of justifications and creative interpretations in their head for the unacceptable. Be honest with yourself and show some integrity. We all know what is right and what is wrong.

@izimbra I don't disagree and can only say as I'm not in the USA I saw little relating to policy -but as you say that may well be due to influence of what we saw - I still in all honesty wouldn't have chosen her as the candidate and yes I still think the USA has a deep level of mysogony amongst working class males in particular and some wealthier males too (( know thy place) more so than I think we have in Europe.

As you say though a big problem is there are issues everywhere including Europe and even in the Far east to a lesser extent and people want a scapegoat and xenophobia and immigrants are an easy target- How the USeill function without it god knows- the whole country was built on it and functions in part due to a lot of low paid immigrants.

Some posts on thread are a great example of the normalisation of extremism.

It's very worrying. 😞