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Is it really that wrong to want for your country what Trump stands for?

1000 replies

Anniedash · 20/01/2025 06:51

I know that there are plenty of threads on Trump at the moment, but most of them are designed to rubbish the guy. That’s been done to death in the last 10 years.

He has still won two presidential elections so perhaps it’s time to move the discussion on a bit.Let’s put aside Trump’s personality, bluster, and whether he will deliver or not, for a second.

Is it really so wrong and bad to want to go for what his core message is? Why is the far right label used so liberally and will we ever see a government in this country which can tackle this madness -

A stop to or huge reduction in illegal immigration

Putting your own country first ahead of internationalism. It’s not a novel idea and certainly not a byword for automatically wanting war. In fact Trump’s argument is that war is bad

Saying no the climate hysteria. Climate change is real but climate emergency seems to be a made up concept to simply tax people to death to re distribute taxes to government lobbyists. Why should people accept being poorer in the name of this dangerous ideology

Putting a stop to woke madness. When did it become ok for state sponsored mutilation of children? Men pretending to be women in prison and hospitals getting access to women’s spaces. People being sanctioned do not using the correct pronouns

Driving the economy forward and putting a stop to endless freebies for those who have no intention of contributing to the system and refuse to work because they are sad.

The fact that someone as eccentric as Trump has to fly the flag for common sense ideas shows you just how batshit the political discourse has become.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
21
HangryLikeTheHulk · 22/01/2025 10:40

User09678 · 22/01/2025 10:38

It's not made up. But you are being unreasonable if you believe that anyone is seriously going to voluntarily accept the hit in living standards addressing this crisis will necessitate.

If they don’t accept it now they’ll have to accept far worse when their home burns down / floods / is blown apart.

Goldenbear · 22/01/2025 10:43

User09678 · 22/01/2025 10:05

You say the Brits aren't obedient. But we are not exactly disobedient either. We are one of the rare states that don't have a codified constitution, we've never had a revolution.

Well, I suppose we did have that small incident referred to as the English Civil War, that resulted in King Charles 1 being executed. Following that, the Monarchy of England was replaced with the Commonwealth of England and it became a Republic under Cromwell until the monarchy was restored after his death but there was no absolute power for the monarchy like was held prior to the war.

We have also been very close to a revolution before the parliamentary reform of 1832. The British monarchs from 1714 to 1901 were frequently criticised for there lack of understanding of the British people. I don't really follow how that makes us obedient?

Crikeyalmighty · 22/01/2025 10:46

Someone posted this on Facebook and managed to articulate exactly my view. If I can add even a stopped clock is right twice a day and I agree with Trump's views on the trans issue- it has all gone too far and become far too dominating a factor for what is a very minority situation. Imagine if disabled rights got such traction - but it doesn't make for good press or nice pretty parades for the media. However it's pretty much the only thing I agree with - I would have voted Democrat if I was in the USA but have to say I think simply because the other choice was so shit- she wasn't a very impressive candidate and I heard little about actual policy other than she wasn't Trump- you can see why disaffected average joes tend to believe Trumps bluster and baloney- same goes here with Reform - simple solutions for complex issues - he was also pretty ineffectual last time too - Democrats need to take a serious look at themselves and actual solutions and pick people who challenge on policy and actually appeal to middle ground voters who do want law and order, good economic strategy and compassion with a streak of reality .

“Why do some British people not like Donald Trump?” Nate White, an articulate and witty writer from England wrote the following response:

A few things spring to mind. Trump lacks certain qualities which the British traditionally esteem. For instance, he has no class, no charm, no coolness, no credibility, no compassion, no wit, no warmth, no wisdom, no subtlety, no sensitivity, no self-awareness, no humility, no honour and no grace – all qualities, funnily enough, with which his predecessor Mr. Obama was generously blessed. So for us, the stark contrast does rather throw Trump’s limitations into embarrassingly sharp relief.

Plus, we like a laugh. And while Trump may be laughable, he has never once said anything wry, witty or even faintly amusing – not once, ever. I don’t say that rhetorically, I mean it quite literally: not once, not ever. And that fact is particularly disturbing to the British sensibility – for us, to lack humour is almost inhuman. But with Trump, it’s a fact. He doesn’t even seem to understand what a joke is – his idea of a joke is a crass comment, an illiterate insult, a casual act of cruelty.

Trump is a troll. And like all trolls, he is never funny and he never laughs; he only crows or jeers. And scarily, he doesn’t just talk in crude, witless insults – he actually thinks in them. His mind is a simple bot-like algorithm of petty prejudices and knee-jerk nastiness.

There is never any under-layer of irony, complexity, nuance or depth. It’s all surface. Some Americans might see this as refreshingly upfront. Well, we don’t. We see it as having no inner world, no soul. And in Britain we traditionally side with David, not Goliath. All our heroes are plucky underdogs: Robin Hood, Dick Whittington, Oliver Twist. Trump is neither plucky, nor an underdog. He is the exact opposite of that. He’s not even a spoiled rich-boy, or a greedy fat-cat. He’s more a fat white slug. A Jabba the Hutt of privilege.

And worse, he is that most unforgivable of all things to the British: a bully. That is, except when he is among bullies; then he suddenly transforms into a snivelling sidekick instead. There are unspoken rules to this stuff – the Queensberry rules of basic decency – and he breaks them all. He punches downwards – which a gentleman should, would, could never do – and every blow he aims is below the belt. He particularly likes to kick the vulnerable or voiceless – and he kicks them when they are down.

So the fact that a significant minority – perhaps a third – of Americans look at what he does, listen to what he says, and then think ‘Yeah, he seems like my kind of guy’ is a matter of some confusion and no little distress to British people, given that:
• Americans are supposed to be nicer than us, and mostly are.
• You don’t need a particularly keen eye for detail to spot a few flaws in the man.

This last point is what especially confuses and dismays British people, and many other people too; his faults seem pretty bloody hard to miss. After all, it’s impossible to read a single tweet, or hear him speak a sentence or two, without staring deep into the abyss. He turns being artless into an art form; he is a Picasso of pettiness; a Shakespeare of shit. His faults are fractal: even his flaws have flaws, and so on ad infinitum. God knows there have always been stupid people in the world, and plenty of nasty people too. But rarely has stupidity been so nasty, or nastiness so stupid. He makes Nixon look trustworthy and George W look smart. In fact, if Frankenstein decided to make a monster assembled entirely from human flaws – he would make a Trump.

And a remorseful Doctor Frankenstein would clutch out big clumpfuls of hair and scream in anguish: ‘My God… what… have… I… created?' If being a twat was a TV show, Trump would be the boxed set.

Crikeyalmighty · 22/01/2025 10:48

@HangryLikeTheHulk personally I'm hoping Mar Lago is next

Inkyblue123 · 22/01/2025 10:56

Trump has achieved what our political parties have failed to do - prioritising the concerns of the electorate rather blindly adhering to political ideologies at the expense of those who are struggling most. If his core policies were rebranded and introduced in other countries, I am sure they would find success. While his personality maybe unappealing to many in the UK. A politician adapted to British sensibilities would achieve significant politely success with his “game plan’ . I find UK journalists to be lazy and very superficial in their appraisal of him. It’s too easy to just take the piss out of him without really looking at why he won.

Alexandra2001 · 22/01/2025 11:06

Inkyblue123 · 22/01/2025 10:56

Trump has achieved what our political parties have failed to do - prioritising the concerns of the electorate rather blindly adhering to political ideologies at the expense of those who are struggling most. If his core policies were rebranded and introduced in other countries, I am sure they would find success. While his personality maybe unappealing to many in the UK. A politician adapted to British sensibilities would achieve significant politely success with his “game plan’ . I find UK journalists to be lazy and very superficial in their appraisal of him. It’s too easy to just take the piss out of him without really looking at why he won.

But his plans are hot air... Tariffs, 60% has turned to 10%, even Biden had higher on EVs.
Deportations? So who will pick America's crops?

Coal... production fell during his last term, too expensive.

Address why Americans use Drugs? Even if the current crop of drugs were stopped, new ones will be made & used.

For the UK specifically, no one can stop X channel migration apart from the French.

& Pardoning 1500 people convicted of rioting and insurection, isn't a vote winner.

I note the war in Ukraine is still on going....

Trump won because Biden and Democrates couldn't come up with a more convincing candidate... by the time Harris came along, most Americans had made up their minds... helped along by the cost of living crisis, which Biden could do little about.

TheNuthatch · 22/01/2025 11:07

Inkyblue123 · 22/01/2025 10:56

Trump has achieved what our political parties have failed to do - prioritising the concerns of the electorate rather blindly adhering to political ideologies at the expense of those who are struggling most. If his core policies were rebranded and introduced in other countries, I am sure they would find success. While his personality maybe unappealing to many in the UK. A politician adapted to British sensibilities would achieve significant politely success with his “game plan’ . I find UK journalists to be lazy and very superficial in their appraisal of him. It’s too easy to just take the piss out of him without really looking at why he won.

Spot on.
This is why Reform are polling so well in the UK. I notice a lack of criticism on these threads about the horrendous campaign that Biden/Harris ran. Harris was faffing around with Beyonce enjoying a brat girl summer, Trump was talking about immigration and the economy. It was obvious who would win. The same will happen here if Labour and the Cons don't change.

Mabelthetable · 22/01/2025 11:07

Then there may well be a drop in actual living.

rewilded · 22/01/2025 11:08

Alexandra2001 · 22/01/2025 09:49

Migrants from fellow European countries, who came here solely to work, didn't bring family dependents with them & then returned.... vs migrants from SE Asia & Africa, with family members, who will never return.

Oh and then the Tories allowed in up to 5m people from Hong Kong, vast majority NOT fleeing persecution, HK is one of the worlds fastest growing economies and has huge international presence, and a large international university.
Iran it is not.

Yes a good deal all round.

Not at all. Blair opened up the UK to workers from Poland, the Czech Republic, and Hungary when other EU members took a more cautious approach. He then introduced point-based systems for skilled workers from other countries, which allowed them to bring over their families.

This initially boosted the economy, but over time, it became a drain on our public services. Rapid social changes followed, leading to growing societal unrest.

The Tories haven't been much better, but Blair's policies have contributed to making the UK very unstable.

u3ername · 22/01/2025 11:10

It's easy to address the concerns of the electorate when you have zero intention of going through with the promises you are making.

Someone was asking why politicians on the right can be friends with politicians on the left but those on the left are less accepting of those on the right - it's called integrity.
The ones on the right are 'flexible', which is easier when you're only serving your own interests and don't have a strong value system.

RingoJuice · 22/01/2025 11:12

Crikeyalmighty · 22/01/2025 10:29

The Trump supporting Americans you always get a sprinkling of on pages like this never ever mention their home grown nut jobs- many of whom are as American as they come and white as snow and their are shitloads of these angry freaks out there - They also tend to identify anyone non white as an immigrant - A massive amount in the USA are American born and have as much right to be there as they do. Same applies here by the way. They need to get to grips with the fact that huge inequalities and lack of access to better themselves or even survive without significant cash leads to the kind of tensions they have- it's an extremely dog eat dog place, all fine if life is going hunky dory but not so great if anything goes wrong. Michael Moore wrote a great book on this topic- forgot what it's called now but basically stating large parts of the USA are indeed like the 3rd world- and he isn't far wrong. There is a medium line to be had between Trumps borderline Nazi diatribes and Harris's -'joy and love' platitudes and sadly it seems the US doesn't have anyone to vote for that recognises the issues and acts in a centre ground pragmatic way . Obama was more like this- he's much missed

Tbh Clinton was the last great American president. And I barely remember it.

In retrospect, Trump’s loss in 2020 has been a gift. He spent four years thinking how he’d do things differently and now he can do them. And the first day … was exquisite. Beyond my expectations. I hope his team can carry this spirit and vigor forward.

EasternStandard · 22/01/2025 11:12

Inkyblue123 · 22/01/2025 10:56

Trump has achieved what our political parties have failed to do - prioritising the concerns of the electorate rather blindly adhering to political ideologies at the expense of those who are struggling most. If his core policies were rebranded and introduced in other countries, I am sure they would find success. While his personality maybe unappealing to many in the UK. A politician adapted to British sensibilities would achieve significant politely success with his “game plan’ . I find UK journalists to be lazy and very superficial in their appraisal of him. It’s too easy to just take the piss out of him without really looking at why he won.

The lack of insight over the last few days has been interesting.

Goldenbear · 22/01/2025 11:14

TheNuthatch · 22/01/2025 11:07

Spot on.
This is why Reform are polling so well in the UK. I notice a lack of criticism on these threads about the horrendous campaign that Biden/Harris ran. Harris was faffing around with Beyonce enjoying a brat girl summer, Trump was talking about immigration and the economy. It was obvious who would win. The same will happen here if Labour and the Cons don't change.

Edited

I wouldn't be too sure of that, people with money, influence and Intelligence don't vote for 'Reform', they remember Brexit! I literally don't know anybody that voted Reform in the last election, not friends, not colleagues, not family, yes it's anecdotal but where are all these Reform voters hiding!

Alexandra2001 · 22/01/2025 11:16

rewilded · 22/01/2025 11:08

Not at all. Blair opened up the UK to workers from Poland, the Czech Republic, and Hungary when other EU members took a more cautious approach. He then introduced point-based systems for skilled workers from other countries, which allowed them to bring over their families.

This initially boosted the economy, but over time, it became a drain on our public services. Rapid social changes followed, leading to growing societal unrest.

The Tories haven't been much better, but Blair's policies have contributed to making the UK very unstable.

Eastern european migration into other EU contries, once the resriction period ended, shot up as well, net migration numbers into the UK was about 240k pa during this period... most have returned home.

More restriction would have delayed, not stopped the overal numbers.

We now have well over 800k annual net migration figures, majority wont return, even when visas expire.

Non EU migration very low.

Crikeyalmighty · 22/01/2025 11:17

@Inkyblue123 I myself have criticised the Democrats for an ineffectual campaign and candidate- see below - that doesn't mean Trump is an amazing candidate either- to me it's exactly like the Johnson/Corbyn situation - neither thanks !!

It's very easy for Reform to promise the moon on a stick they know they won't be in power and Brexit of course was such an amazing call by them - the country now is a complete powerhouse. Farage like Trump is self interested egomaniac - still he likes a pint and a laugh and the Daily Mail so that should be enough for those who believe in simple solutions to complex problems -- his vision of plucky little Britain waving the flag is utter tommyrot in a global economy and he seems to forget the USA is its own version of the EU - it has big enough markets to attract investment and easy trade simply within its own borders, disregarding any exports - the UK does not for anything other than local type businesses servicing the UK

TheNuthatch · 22/01/2025 11:18

Goldenbear · 22/01/2025 11:14

I wouldn't be too sure of that, people with money, influence and Intelligence don't vote for 'Reform', they remember Brexit! I literally don't know anybody that voted Reform in the last election, not friends, not colleagues, not family, yes it's anecdotal but where are all these Reform voters hiding!

Reform came second in approximately 100 seats that Labour won. Recent polling shows reform right behind Labour in voting intentions. I didn't and wouldn't vote for them, but many will if things don't change.

MrsSkylerWhite · 22/01/2025 11:20

Trump is flying the flag for common sense?

🤣🤣🤣

His bestie has taken to publicly giving the nazi salute.

Goldenbear · 22/01/2025 11:20

rewilded · 22/01/2025 11:08

Not at all. Blair opened up the UK to workers from Poland, the Czech Republic, and Hungary when other EU members took a more cautious approach. He then introduced point-based systems for skilled workers from other countries, which allowed them to bring over their families.

This initially boosted the economy, but over time, it became a drain on our public services. Rapid social changes followed, leading to growing societal unrest.

The Tories haven't been much better, but Blair's policies have contributed to making the UK very unstable.

Absent from your argument appears to be logic, who has been on power for the last 14 years, years in powered that included the most devastating action to the British economy - fucking Brexit!!

rewilded · 22/01/2025 11:22

Blair basically had an open door policy. It isn't true that most EE workers have gone home. He basically gave out the message come to the UK. The rest of Europe did not do this.

He has sent a message that all are welcome in the UK and that message is still being felt across the world - people are still seeing us as an easy option for freebies and a quiet life.

Crikeyalmighty · 22/01/2025 11:24

@Goldenbear looking at where they got MPs- they are mainly hiding in Britains crappier places, particularly rundown seaside towns of broke pensioners who want to believe immigrants are responsible for their situation - same goes for ex mining towns ( I'm
Originally from one) where 30p Lee is MP on the next constituency - stuffed full of miserable, mysoginistic 'they get everything down south' bitter people- ( feel very sorry for any centre/centre left voters in this area) strangely last time I visited I couldn't help but notice the bargain house prices, the new EU funded leisure centre , train station and industrial park etc, etc - many run down places down south ( and there are plenty) have nothing of the sort - and are left to fend for themselves

EasternStandard · 22/01/2025 11:24

Goldenbear · 22/01/2025 11:14

I wouldn't be too sure of that, people with money, influence and Intelligence don't vote for 'Reform', they remember Brexit! I literally don't know anybody that voted Reform in the last election, not friends, not colleagues, not family, yes it's anecdotal but where are all these Reform voters hiding!

Going by polling they are just as likely as Labour atm

marcusian · 22/01/2025 11:24

Blimey i thought this was a joke post, but then i saw that 40% people have agreed (tho thankfully it is a low number of people who have replied).

A convicted criminal, a serial liar, who supported a coup, clearly in hock to billionaires, and who many people believe will try to change the US Constitution to stay in power and avoid further criminal charges. And you suggest this is just 'bluster' and we should ignore it? Incredible!

This is Mumsnet FFS, and you defend a man who boasts that women want him to grab them "down there" as he puts it, and so he obliges, whilst also removing their reproductive choices?

Imminent climate change is v real FACT so which 'woke' bit would you like us to ignore? Pray do tell...i need a laugh.

Whilst we operate in a global marketplace, all countries put themselves first, we give approaching 2% in aid, but this is actually more often than not to further trade agreements to benefit our country. But even allowing for that, our finances are still 98% focussed internally on the UK.

Unless your only source if information is the xenophobic Daily Mail/Sun/Twitter axis, the facts are clear that the economic benefits of inward migration are well evidenced, especially with an aging population, and migrants covering jobs us Brits dont want to do, and paying taxes on everything they earn. Its rather the INTEGRATION where we have been let down, with poor planning and focus on the impacts of local infrastructure by several Governments. But do carry on blaming the foreigners why dont you, coz that's how everyone remains gaslit.

RingoJuice · 22/01/2025 11:28

HangryLikeTheHulk · 22/01/2025 10:40

If they don’t accept it now they’ll have to accept far worse when their home burns down / floods / is blown apart.

Good infrastructure and disaster planning is far better than impoverishing yourself hoping something changes (and with less than 1% of global emissions, literally nothing you do matters)

rewilded · 22/01/2025 11:29

Goldenbear · 22/01/2025 11:20

Absent from your argument appears to be logic, who has been on power for the last 14 years, years in powered that included the most devastating action to the British economy - fucking Brexit!!

Labour opened up the workforce to new EU members - P, CR and H. Other EU members did not do this. He then went on to open up a points - based system to non - EU migrants. This caused the immigration explosion and families of workers followed which innevitably caused a drain on services and then cultural issues begin to emerge.

The Tories did not stop this and face blame too but Blair/ Labour put this into motion - 2004- 2008.

BIossomtoes · 22/01/2025 11:30

EasternStandard · 22/01/2025 11:12

The lack of insight over the last few days has been interesting.

It certainly has.

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