Is it really that wrong to want for your country what Trump stands for?

[Anniedash]

I know that there are plenty of threads on Trump at the moment, but most of them are designed to rubbish the guy. That’s been done to death in the last 10 years.

He has still won two presidential elections so perhaps it’s time to move the discussion on a bit.Let’s put aside Trump’s personality, bluster, and whether he will deliver or not, for a second.

Is it really so wrong and bad to want to go for what his core message is? Why is the far right label used so liberally and will we ever see a government in this country which can tackle this madness -

A stop to or huge reduction in illegal immigration

Putting your own country first ahead of internationalism. It’s not a novel idea and certainly not a byword for automatically wanting war. In fact Trump’s argument is that war is bad

Saying no the climate hysteria. Climate change is real but climate emergency seems to be a made up concept to simply tax people to death to re distribute taxes to government lobbyists. Why should people accept being poorer in the name of this dangerous ideology

Putting a stop to woke madness. When did it become ok for state sponsored mutilation of children? Men pretending to be women in prison and hospitals getting access to women’s spaces. People being sanctioned do not using the correct pronouns

Driving the economy forward and putting a stop to endless freebies for those who have no intention of contributing to the system and refuse to work because they are sad.

The fact that someone as eccentric as Trump has to fly the flag for common sense ideas shows you just how batshit the political discourse has become.

Remind me, how many seats did they win again and within those seats what kind of majority do they hold? They are protest votes and Labour need to deliver.

They may be protest votes, but they still count!

The left are angry and mn is going a bit crazy with that. The pp re journalists is relevant too. They may feel threatened by the shift in politics.

The US will likely surge ahead and others will find things tougher

Do you think we can sustainably support the current global population?

Crikey, what a fatalistic view, I for one won't be imparting to my DC, the selfish notion of inaction and to have no hope as that is what your false certainty encourages!

They have returned, Hospitals, care agencies will all tell you that,

Anecdotally, trades are so hard to get now.

The UK is attractive due to language & familial ties & yes, with no ID cards and a huge Black Economy & once here, no land border, its very difficult to deport.... of course we have pull factors.

Why did so few seek asylum here pre Brexit? i didn't notice 100s of dinghies crossing the channel, did you?

The US will likely surge ahead and others will find things tougher

Not with tariffs they wont.

@rewilded you are talking bollocks- have you been to Amsterdam, Berlin, Copenhagen , Dublin etc - we lived in Copenhagen for a bit- it's full of other working Europeans and has been for many years - and that's at all levels from delivery men to nuclear physics!! I have a lovely Polish lady who does my ironing as well as another full time job - very lovely smart family , all working, fully contributing - what's your issue? Vast majority of the families I know sat on their arse doing as little as they can get away with and claiming as much as they can are white British

You are probably referring to the large number of Romanians etc that came back in early 2000s- yes I think Blair called that wrong and should have been more cautious- but most of the ones who realised it wasn't land of milk and honey went back years ago when they realised it was bloody expensive to live here and wages not great on low skilled jobs.

On the other hand the Tory's post Brexit realising they now had big gaps in the workforce in some essential services invited everyone and their mother 'legal immigration' and from outside the EU to just pop along with their family - because EU workers no longer have UK top of the list as they realised they can get by with just English in many other country's and with a better lifestyle - I know that because I had a desk in a centre that had a company processing the visas - our lift was constantly full of Africans, Phillipinos, Bangladeshis etc - plus multiple kids in tow. And it only works one way - and these folk 'stay' and need health, education, housing - the younger EU people often came as singles and needed far less in this regard. Families that came from EU in later years were mainly decently paid relocating professionals due to cost of UK . That's the Tory's for you- Brexit was badly thought out, badly planned and badly executed.dont hang it on Labour!!'

This is not true as any town centre will show you we quite clearly have a lot of EE residents

Yes, I just looked at a map of where they gained the most votes and it is mostly that demographic.

Tariffs are a way to get what the US wants. Not many can use them in that way but they have the weight and impact

Who do you think will be paying for the Tariffs- the Customers of course so the promise to bring prices down might be a challenge!

Like i said, rather than you re own bias, look at the facts, ask Employers?

Eastern European countries economies have prospered, the UK hasn't.

Anyway, we wont agree and the thread isn't about UK/EU migration policies.

Who do you think will be paying for the Tariffs- the Customers of course so the promise to bring prices down might be a challenge!

You need to factor in why they work as a strategy. The US gets other countries to do what they want to avoid a high tariff.

Only countries as strong as the US can do it, but it is effective

So you think China and the EU wont retaliate, they will.... smaller countries might give Trump what he wants but that wont benefit them at all.

It was only in 2021 that the last trade dispute ended with the US and EU.

anyway, moot point as the markets aren't pricing in Tariffs at all....

So you don't think any world leaders will retaliate? How do trade wars help price inflation?

Yes, exactly the UK is not prospering with such a drain on services from people coming to our country.

I just caught the tail end of Politics Live and a wealthy businessman said why would he stay in the UK as he may have private healthcare but if he needed the emergency services it takes too long and not worth the risk. We will spiral now the UK is in trouble if we don't get a grip of this now.

It is embarrassing to be British at this point. We are seen as a joke.

I may consider moving to the CR or Poland and see what's going on there. I have my IP so all good. At least I won't feel ridiculous as I do in my own country.

A threat of a tariff is just that, the outcome may well be something else the US wants.

That’s the point of it. The US starts to get stuff across the world to benefit them more.

TheOnlyLivingBoyInNewCross
Oh, look - this must be one of first of the changes that so many posters on here are excited about!
Now we have a prolific drug dealer and someone suspected of six murders-for-hire back in circulation.
(Whoever accused me of hyperbole is going to HATE this post, so I hope they’ve buckled up!)

To be fair, your post suggests that six people were murdered and your link says;
'... no evidence existed that any killings were actually carried out.'

The Guardian haven't even mentioned the suspected murders-for-hire in their report on Ulbricht today but that's lefties for you.

(NB I haven't read the posts prior to this one)

You mentioned Blair earlier, under him, we had a functioning NHS, it may not have been the world leader some may tell you but the fact remained that AE and emergency care worked, your businessman had no such worries in the 2000s.

Yet we had mass migration.....

NHS has collapsed very recently.... we've lost skilled EU staff, replaced by people who lack good English skills and have to be retrained by the NHS & those staff have bought in children and their elderly parents.

Far more likely to need NHS care.

They have not been stripped of that right. Any more than a conversation is needed in the UK to reduce the abortion time limit from 24 to 22 weeks. A baby (not a fetus at this stage) can survive independently, cry, feed, feel pain. Trump has allowed States to apply the rules within the Federal law of allowing abortion under specific circumstances such as rape, incest , medical grounds or within a time bar. California have been allowing near-term abortions with no time bar. That is wrong.

And why do you have so much confidence on that working out for them?

They’re pretty powerful as a country as much as some mners like to scoff and think there’s an equal weight. Countries will act to avoid high tariffs in the same way we see the impact already in the ME after months of Biden trying.

So why don’t you think it will work for them?

Yes it worked in 2000 we didn't have an open door policy until 2004 we then had a steady stream of people come into our country. I don't know why you are making this simple fact so difficult to explain.

The NHS has been in steady decline for a while. It was perfect before 2000.

As I said before Blair started it and the Tories didn't finish it.

I can see a huge difference in pardoning One Thousand, Five Hundred violent rioters who have not completed their sentence and protecting six people from politically motivated prosecutions.
I have an issue with both but one is CLEARLY worse.