Is it really that wrong to want for your country what Trump stands for?

[Anniedash]

I know that there are plenty of threads on Trump at the moment, but most of them are designed to rubbish the guy. That’s been done to death in the last 10 years.

He has still won two presidential elections so perhaps it’s time to move the discussion on a bit.Let’s put aside Trump’s personality, bluster, and whether he will deliver or not, for a second.

Is it really so wrong and bad to want to go for what his core message is? Why is the far right label used so liberally and will we ever see a government in this country which can tackle this madness -

A stop to or huge reduction in illegal immigration

Putting your own country first ahead of internationalism. It’s not a novel idea and certainly not a byword for automatically wanting war. In fact Trump’s argument is that war is bad

Saying no the climate hysteria. Climate change is real but climate emergency seems to be a made up concept to simply tax people to death to re distribute taxes to government lobbyists. Why should people accept being poorer in the name of this dangerous ideology

Putting a stop to woke madness. When did it become ok for state sponsored mutilation of children? Men pretending to be women in prison and hospitals getting access to women’s spaces. People being sanctioned do not using the correct pronouns

Driving the economy forward and putting a stop to endless freebies for those who have no intention of contributing to the system and refuse to work because they are sad.

The fact that someone as eccentric as Trump has to fly the flag for common sense ideas shows you just how batshit the political discourse has become.

@malificent7 ,

I am not sure that the price of olive oil is the worst effect of climate change, or that ‘everyone’ is moaning about it!

But, again, with climate change, the dialogue has been entirely dishonest and so populism and denial can seem to be the solution.

The way it has been dealt with is a change to greener energy but that has massively increased fuel costs, leading to a maybe 1% increase in ‘tax’ for the wealthy but a massive increase in costs for the poorest, often giving them the choice between being cold or hungry.

And the three holiday a year brigade and those flying private refuse to moderate their lives at all.

So, someone like Trump comes along with ‘drill, baby, drill’ and promised cheap energy, the appeal is obvious. And the real pain of global warming will be deferred a couple of generations down the line.

There wasn't election interference, and assistance from other parties around the world has always happened. Few articles referencing it below.

https://consoc.org.uk/have-labour-interfered-in-the-us-election/
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/oct/23/why-are-labour-volunteers-causing-a-stir-in-the-us-election-race

Green cards as in you're giving them the pass to do what they want.

You're being facetious and you know it. The UK labour party are regularly reported as seeing the Dems as their US sister party as both being centre left. Many examples of it being referred as that, but two below.

https://nypost.com/2024/10/23/us-news/trump-campaign-accuses-uks-labour-party-of-election-interference/
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62m2pde4p6o

I am not supporting Trump the person. I do, however, believe that these policies that people voted him in on, are about important issues.

I had no-one to vote for that promised to stand for sex based women's rights at our last vote (Scotland) and had to spoil my vote.

Left wing ideologies have allowed paedophile rape gangs to thrive because people were scared to be called racist. Women are in danger and losing their livelihoods because gender ideology has allowed men who 'identify as' female to become sacred and untouchable.

People who vote right wing because they want away from leftist policies are not voting for personalities or for facism. The party system and politics in general is too black and white now.

Politicians should all be independents and should be judged on their policies imo.

So you are not referring to US Green cards which are an immigration status which would be relevant ? Ignorance muddying your argument.

Wondering how you know what I’m thinking …. Another arrogant liberal sister no doubt, thinking they know what people should think, and tell them what to think. U sound like another sheep.

https://pledgeprogress.co.uk/

I was curious about the reason for the rise in price of olive oil and it seems it's not all due to climate change:

The price of olive oil has increased due to a combination of factors, including:

• Climate change: Extreme weather events like droughts, heatwaves, and wildfires have reduced the amount of olives produced 

• Disease: The bacterium Xylella fastidiosa destroys olive trees 

• Theft: Thieves steal olive oil, olive fruit, and even entire trees 

• Inflation: The cost of producing olive oil has increased due to inflation 

• Supply and demand: The supply of olive oil has decreased, while demand has remained the same

It's not fear mongering. He has been endorsed by the religious right and does rely on their support (among other sources, but this is a major one for him). Despite denying knowledge or association with Project 2025, he has surrounded himself with people who believe in its implementation. It's not a conspiracy, it's all very open actually. I maintain it would be naive to assume that those people who endorse this fundamentalist project, the most religious conservative elements within the US political landscape, won't put pressure for it to happen.

Ahh the "Sheep" insult as soon as you're unable to substantiate or have a reasoned debate.

The irony of calling me "Another arrogant liberal sister" and following it with "thinking they know what people should think, and tell them what to think" when I haven't once told you what you should think or do think, just pointing out you are being facetious. The alternative is you're just being a willfully dumb?

I am well aware of the green card, it's not ignorance, merely a turn of phrase which I've explained.

You still haven't responded how Farage's involvement in the election is any different?

Also, no acknowledgement that your original statements are simply not true, but just clickbait headlines?

The Iraq war - which Michael Howard said he would have also taken us into - predated both the 2005 and 2010 elections. How is it logical to say it was a factor in the one Labour lost when they won the other? A very strong factor in 2010, when neither of the main parties had a majority, was Cleggmania. The LibDems split the progressive vote - and much good it did them.

The "left wing ideologies" in regards to rape gangs is an awful misrepresentation. There is no ideology which allows rape and grooming of children, and white men are as guilty as any other ethnicity.

Failure to prosecute gangs initially was largely proven to be down to misogyny and prejudice towards girls bought up in poverty.

I see people link this a lot. Luckily someone pointed out it’s just an opinion and hobby blog.

Labour voters seem to rely on it a lot but I doubt it’ll mean anything to Reform voters

All these factors are interconnected and are a result of climate change. The rise in global temperatures brought about by climate change, enhances the outbreaks of these diseases, that impacts supply and that obviously means the price of Olive oil increases! Equally, something that is becoming more valuable as a result of the above, presumably increases the chances of theft of that item.

Didn't we just witness LA on fire, how is that not related to climate change or indeed, how is it NOT a climate emergency?

So like many of the dubious sources provided by the extreme right.

So like many of the dubious sources provided by the extreme right.

Possibly. I'm pretty careful about what I listen to (radio mostly)

I don't put any store in an oft touted hobby blog.

@Goldenbear

"All these factors are interconnected and are a result of climate change."

No they're not - you just made that up!

How has a growing demand towards olive oil for health reasons as we have witnessed in the UK (away from vegetable oil and lard) got anything to do with climate change.

Whilst it is a theory that the increase in Xylella fastidiosa may be linked to climate change there has been no definitive evidence of this.

Inflation caused by higher energy and fertiliser costs from the Ukraine conflict has got bugger all to do with climate change.

It’s not surprising that the irrational Trump derangement syndrome is alive and well on this thread.

In any case, the point of the thread was not to litigate Trump. Because the derangement syndrome kicks in the moment someone mentions his name. The idea was to talk about the ideas the people are voting for

I haven’t seen one good argument against those ideas except for ‘blah far right’, ‘blah blah daily fail’, ‘blah blah blah Hitler’.

Why is it so difficult for those on the left to have a discussion without jumping to personal insults or just outright hysteria. The left shouts the loudest and pays the price at the ballot box. That’s the direction of travel.

"The "left wing ideologies" in regards to rape gangs is an awful misrepresentation. There is no ideology which allows rape and grooming of children, and white men are as guilty as any other ethnicity.

Failure to prosecute gangs initially was largely proven to be down to misogyny and prejudice towards girls bought up in poverty." @2andadog

Poorly worded by me. Apologies. Pakistani paedophile rape gangs are the rape gangs I was referencing. And a big part of the failure to arrest and prosecute was due to fear of being called racist. This was due to left wing ideology / 'wokeness' for lack of a better term.

You seem very adept at the insults yourself. You haven't engaged with any of the arguments on the thread, anyone would think you weren't posting in good faith.

But the racist "fear" has been disproven through local and national inquiries. It was through the police not believing evidence being bought forward by the victims who were seen as being unreliable due to being young and "hanging around with the wrong type of people". Eg an attitude of "you were asking for it".

Climate change hysteria? Come on OP. It's not hysteria, it's scientific FACT. it's also scary and inconvenient which is why people like Trump are trying to minimise it instead of actually doing something about it. Wakey wakey OP!

You must have noticed that recorded seasonal temperatures are getting higher every year and that major natural disasters like wildfires are becoming more commonplace - L.A, Greece (remember when they evacuated Corfu??), Australia - 60,000 koala's died in those fires. Coral reefs are dying because of raised ocean temperatures. Flipping heck, I could literally list hundreds of examples of proof of this.

It's not hysteria, it's right there in front of your eyes, you just don't want to see it.

Is that you Donald?

You stated that demand "remains the same" not that it was growing, so basic Economics of demand and supply come into play here.

Well that's vintage climate change denier speak which is almost impossible to argue with but honestly as much as you may not want it to be so, there a multitude of studies linking Climate Change as a reason for shifts in the distribution and prevalence of plant diseases. What are you going to tell us next, that Climate Change is wholly unrelated to the extreme LA wildfires!

It was an issue for many people, even more so as we got to 2010. It was a massive issue for me. You also have very different memories to me as to why labour lost that election. I won't go into my thoughts on Gordon Brown as this thread is about Trump. We shall agree to disagree.

So what, to learn to understand? I can only speak for myself but please don't delude yourself that I have anything to learn from you and your thread.