Is it really that wrong to want for your country what Trump stands for?

[Anniedash]

I know that there are plenty of threads on Trump at the moment, but most of them are designed to rubbish the guy. That’s been done to death in the last 10 years.

He has still won two presidential elections so perhaps it’s time to move the discussion on a bit.Let’s put aside Trump’s personality, bluster, and whether he will deliver or not, for a second.

Is it really so wrong and bad to want to go for what his core message is? Why is the far right label used so liberally and will we ever see a government in this country which can tackle this madness -

A stop to or huge reduction in illegal immigration

Putting your own country first ahead of internationalism. It’s not a novel idea and certainly not a byword for automatically wanting war. In fact Trump’s argument is that war is bad

Saying no the climate hysteria. Climate change is real but climate emergency seems to be a made up concept to simply tax people to death to re distribute taxes to government lobbyists. Why should people accept being poorer in the name of this dangerous ideology

Putting a stop to woke madness. When did it become ok for state sponsored mutilation of children? Men pretending to be women in prison and hospitals getting access to women’s spaces. People being sanctioned do not using the correct pronouns

Driving the economy forward and putting a stop to endless freebies for those who have no intention of contributing to the system and refuse to work because they are sad.

The fact that someone as eccentric as Trump has to fly the flag for common sense ideas shows you just how batshit the political discourse has become.

Biden was / is an embarrassment.
His crookedness & cronyism is appalling.

Media covered for him, spun and mis reported “news”

The people voted.

If Trump is more the same, so what?

Am shocked that Starmer chose to do “foreign interference” during an election. Truly shocking from UKPM. Could not believe our government actually send people to the USA to support a candidate openly. Backfiring for all of us, sinking our economy even deeper. The arrogance of Labour, what a bunch of morons.

So you don't think the fires in California are climate emergency?
And where do we send all immigrants? This is a worldwide issue.
Finally he's a rapist and felon.

He’s not ‘eccentric’. He’s literally a rapist.

We all know that what is said in opposition doesn't always translate once in power. Starmer promised to abolish the house of Lords and scrap tuition fees at one point! I guess we'll never know how the financial crash would have played out had the tories been in power. We will also never know what would have happened during covid had labour been in power.
I would also add that labour were also saying that they would introduce austerity during the election which resulted in the coalition.

Putting your own country first ahead of internationalism. It’s not a novel idea and certainly not a byword for automatically wanting war. In fact Trump’s argument is that war is bad.

Of course war is bad, but you're making it more likely war/conflict will happen by alienating yourself from other countries. The EU gets a lot of criticism, but it's achieved its objective of no war between member states, even ones historically always at each others' throats.

Covid showed that all the world is connected and you can't beat globalisation. It's stupid to make things difficult for your trade partners. It's much better for everyone to rise together than one trying to stamp on another, at the cost of conflict, war, economies etc.

Saying no the climate hysteria. Climate change is real but climate emergency seems to be a made up concept to simply tax people to death to re distribute taxes to government lobbyists. Why should people accept being poorer in the name of this dangerous ideology.

You're thinking about it in the very short term. Change is usually painful, but it's the bigger picture. It's like how if you stop someone smoking then you eliminate the cost of treating them for lung cancer later.

Putting a stop to woke madness. When did it become ok for state sponsored mutilation of children? Men pretending to be women in prison and hospitals getting access to women’s spaces. People being sanctioned do not using the correct pronouns.

I think you're conflating a lot of different things here because you've been invested in too much right wing content.

It's a common strategy for right wing groups to (ab)use concepts like mutilation and child abuse to draw people in to what they're saying and then use it to push completely different far right ideologies that are actually pretty terrible. But you think that it must be okay because you're against child abuse (as everyone is) and you agree with what they said about that so you must agree about other things they say too. Sadly they don't actually care about any of the things they say, they're just abusing the concepts.

Driving the economy forward and putting a stop to endless freebies for those who have no intention of contributing to the system and refuse to work because they are sad.

I think there's a distinction between people who genuinely struggle with severe mental health issues and people who pretend they have them to claim benefits because it's harder to disprove. I agree the latter needs to be prevented; I think the assessment needs to be far more medically and scientifically approached than someone just filling out a questionnaire and answering a few generic GP questions.

However I'm not sure how much time and money is worth spending on preventing benefit fraud when we need to provide incentives for young people to stay here instead of wanting to move to better countries with higher salaries and better opportunities.

But that didn't happen with "electoral interference".

People from UK political parties have been going to the states to help their sister parties for YEARS. Literally, it's almost "standard policy", they do it in their own time, it's not official, and wasn't this time either.

Same with the PM not being invited to the inauguration, a PM hasn't been invited since the 1700's...

I guess Farage simping over Trump doesn't count?

Firstly that’s your take, and I assume you are a Labour voter. Others will feel differently

But also didn’t Starmer say he would ‘smash the gangs’? I don’t believe that has happened, you might ask for more time but it seems an impossibility which will then impact votes.

Labour might say we’re grand, it’s down to ‘mates at the pub’ it doesn’t affect us. Not sure it will help them.

If Iraq was an issue how did Blair win the 2005 election?

Come on Blossom! You're better than that. It was an issue and you know it. Still is for Blair and Campbell.

Trump is a Felon.
He is a Rapist. He is racist, misogynist & mocks the disabled.
He ignores science (he suggested injecting bleach to cure covid)
He ignores climate change.
He has staffed his administration with dangerous fools.
He has encouraged social media giants to reject fact checking.
He tried to overthrow Democracy & deliberately incited a riot (where people died) in the US. THAT is really dangerous. Mostly to the US but also to us too.

So how did Blair win in 2005? Surely it’s a reasonable question to ask?

If you only focus on the things you agree with and ignore the bad things, you're making the same mistake that left wing voters are making.
Last time he was in office, Trump acted against abortion rights. He doesn't care about women's rights, that's not why he is reversing some of the changes the Democrats made when they attacked women's rights and made prisons mixed sex.
The fundamental problem is that women's rights can be held hostage in this way in the first place.

It's not my take. It's literally taking the time to look at what has been achieved in 6months vs what was in the manifesto and the state of the country.

No, I am not a labour voter. I interrogate everything regardless of the political party behind it or the source of the information.

I am genuinely concerned with the mis-information reported and spread throughout social media. Everyone has different views on what is the best way to do things, that's fine. Those views need to be based on what is actually happening, and not what is said to be happening.

Yes a point in case was Wales, in receipt of the largest amount of EU funding but returned the vote to Leave! How exactly has that been beneficial for the Welsh economy, the lost funds were more than double that of Scotland and England. Really tragic what people fell for.

Thank you for at least being honest about your lack of intelligence and understanding of the bigger picture. You 'hate' America? What? All of it? Everyone in it? Could you expand on what you hate so much because America is a massive and diverse space and it would be helpful if you could narrow it down. I get that this is probably a challenge too far for you but go on. Have a go.

@Goldenbear I’m Welsh, it was a truly jaw dropping moment seeing how the majority of Wales voted. Still shocks me now.

I was referring to the 2010 election post the financial crash in my reply to a pp. If you would like to explain your thoughts on the 2005 election to me, I'm all ears.

And you think the trans agenda espoused by Kamala Harris does not strip women of autonomy over their own body? It certainly does, and strips away women's right to privacy, public access (because of the urine leash) and services that women need being segregated by sex e.g. rape refuges, DV refuges. Also impinges on prizes for women (a man has been nominated for best actress more than once now), as well as impinging on sports (very important in the US where scholarships often depend on success in a sport).
I hadn't noticed the Democrats increasing taxes on the wealthy or not taking huge bribes - sorry campaign funds - from industries and people whose vested interests they then espouse.
NB US politics is a corrupt mess. Some will vote for Trump as a protest against that.

I just can’t be bothered to have the arguments. It won’t change your mind, and I fundamentally don’t believe you’re clever enough to understand reality (based on your comments about climate change in particular).

Reform support is highly linked to issues around immigration. You didn’t answer if ‘smash the gangs’ had happened? That is easy to measure, not ‘said to be happening’ but actually measurable.

I don’t think Starmer can achieve what he has stated, and already hasn’t made any head way in seven months with numbers. Plus general governing that many react against. That feeds into Reform support.

It’s all part of public political sentiment and if someone is in the pub with mates they still get a vote as do those at idk dinner parties

When I say, Wales I don't mean individuals as obviously, unfortunately we all left, I got married the following day it totally overshadowed my wedding as many guests/family with informed jobs knew what this meant for the country's finances.

There is almost no point in debating this any more because facts are now blurred with conspiracy and opinions are spoken as truths. Any time someone with a slightly liberal opinion comes forward the answer is “you would say that as you are woke and have been indoctrinated by the mainstream media and politicians”. It’s like we are living in a parallel universe where disinformation is the norm and facts no longer matter.

OP - you wont get people who actually support Trump to agree with you because they will be taken apart by the rest - it's like supporting Boris or the Tories - its a no-no on here. FWIW i agree with your post.

OP's thoughts on climate change are accurate. There is climate change - about which we can do little but adapt and slightly mitigate - but the 'climate emergency' being whipped up, with everything from earthquakes to bush fires being attributed to it, is not at all helpful. And much of the lobbying done will result in a poorer world and life for most people. I bet no member of Greenpeace/the Green Party/all the Climate Rebellion groups has ever had to wash sheets in the bath and then dry them in the house or spend hours at the launderette to wash them. But my mother did and I have - and I am damned sure I do not want to do it again, or see my DDs, GDDs and GGDDs having to boil up nappies in a bucket having soaked them in bleach for a day or so - which is what my late DM had to do when I and my brothers were babies.
Renewables are not reliable enough to power our lives, either - unless we want to go back to pre-Industrial Revolution lives, in which case most women can say goodbye to careers, or a lot have to become domestic servants/servicers in some capacity.

16500+ illegal immigrants have been exported from the country in the last 6months under the Labour government, which is more than the last government managed in the last 8yrs.

The tories used immigration as a political pawn which is disgusting. However the blind hatred towards anything labour means the reform followers/the right wing media do not and will not report this.

The "smash the gangs" I guess you mean in regards to the people trafficking? There has been a huge push in employing more immigration and border force officials in the last few months which will be focussing on this as opposed to relying on subcontractors who don't give a damn as we saw with the previous government. It's not "easy to measure", but the actions with intentions are there to see.