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Grooming gangs being labelled as "Muslim grooming gangs"

1000 replies

Olga009933 · 19/01/2025 17:48

Why is religious heritage of child sex offenders only mentioned in headlines when the offenders are of south Asian and predominantly Muslim heritage.
Why not just label them as "grooming gangs" or "Asian grooming gangs" (if wanting to be be specific).
Just thinking and wondering about the thousands of white British and presumably non-Muslim sex offenders who make the news. How many of them are labelled "Christian sex attacker" or "Jewish pervert" etc? Why is the religious heritage of a sex offender only mentioned why the offenders are of Muslim background?
If mentioning religion for one particular demographic then surely its only fair to mention the religious heritage of them all?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
24
Tittat50 · 19/01/2025 21:29

whippy1981 · 19/01/2025 21:24

This was two female detectives. I agree there is a huge issue with misogyny within the force from both females and males. I am near those areas so their attitudes towards women being raped is that they do not matter.

I can believe that sadly.

Feelingathomenow · 19/01/2025 21:30

It’s because, finally, people feel like they can mention two very important common elements to these gangs, race and religion.

Of course, there are some outliers, but these two elements are important for understanding and therefore stopping these gangs that are still committing horrendous crimes.

  1. we need to understand if there is a lack of integration by elements of specific communities into British culture and values such that they consider the organised rape and torture of young girls from a different demographic to be acceptable. If this is found to be the case what must change within that culture and how will that be achieved
  2. in a similar vein we need to understand if these people are interpreting a religion to somehow grant them a right over women, esp those of a different religion/race to commit these horrendous acts. If so, this needs to be addressed as this has no place here..
  3. We need to understand if authorities have deliberately failed to address these child rape gangs based on their ethnicity or religion. If this is found to be the case is this a wider issue that has implications for societal cohesion
  4. if 3 above is found. To be the case, we need to understand why and ensure this is addressed both within the relevant institutions and wider society to ensure that everyone realises this is the case.

When people were saying it was important wider investigations took place, it was the above questions they need answering. It appears that the veil of fear has now been pierced and investigations into the above are now being addressed.

ARealitycheck · 19/01/2025 21:30

Tittat50 · 19/01/2025 21:27

This is really pertinent and this is where the word ' Asian' is very problematic and provocative. I can see how such a broad terminology describing origin is not useful at all. I support the use of Pakistani Muslim rape gang terminology.

But it wasn't just Pakistani though.The overriding common denominator was they were majority muslim.

Hellohelga · 19/01/2025 21:30

SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · 19/01/2025 21:23

That’s not what the map was. They’ve since posted more information, which you have just edited your post to also link. Ta

Edited

I edited because when I first posted the map was deleted - not sure why. My comment relates to my map. Assuming it’s up to date and correct, fgm is clearly legal in many countries not just a small number of East African countries as the OP says. Also not illegal in Malaysian as another PP said. I think this is important information.

SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · 19/01/2025 21:31

YouveGotNoBloodyIdea · 19/01/2025 21:24

This doesn't prove what you think it proves. The statistics show that the pakistani muslim grooming gangs are far out of proportion to the pakistani population of the UK. We are not talking about sexual abuse of children in general, we are talking about grooming gangs operating in a systemic and targeted way. The article you link to says this

"The figure increases for Pakistani offenders to 13.7% if you remove institutional groups, such as sports groups, schools and church-based group offenders, and group child abuse committed in a family setting"

So 13.7% of this type of grooming gang is Pakistani
According to the 2021 census the Pakistani population of the UK is 2.7%

So Pakistani men appear to be 5 times more likely to be members of a grooming gang than if they were behaving in the same way as the rest of the male population.

If all groups of men behaved in the same way then the statistics would pretty much match across all demographics. X % of this ethnicity in the population = X% of this ethnicity represented in the grooming gang stats.

As someone said up thread, if this statistic was Americans we would be saying WTF is going on?

Well yeah, once you remove all the white Christians from the data pool of gangs that are systematically grooming and raping children then ofc the % of Pakistani Muslims left in the now much diminished pool is going to go up. You can’t take that and then compare it to the general population to say “5 times more likely” . That’s not how you mathematically do a comparative analysis on a per capita basis.

The data shows there is no more likely at all.

Twiney2 · 19/01/2025 21:33

Tittat50 · 19/01/2025 21:20

I'm interested in learning more. Did you post the link for further reading. If there is a reputable source?

Sure. Contact the Islamic Foundation +44 1530 244944

They can provide you with the information so you can learn more.

Tittat50 · 19/01/2025 21:34

ARealitycheck · 19/01/2025 21:30

But it wasn't just Pakistani though.The overriding common denominator was they were majority muslim.

I'm going to be honest,my focus and understanding is on the religious element. I have watched and read a fair bit yet need to fully understand the wider ' identity ' of all perpetrators then and whether that appears relevant.

Twiney2 · 19/01/2025 21:35

TheGander · 19/01/2025 21:22

I grew up in a Muslim country and it’s pretty clear to me that the mentality for many Muslims is 1) a good “clean” woman is a virgin until her wedding night 2) woman who aren’t are “ dirty” and fair game and 3) western women fall mostly into the second category. To be fair, I suspect that other religions / ethnicities hold the same views to varying degrees. But it doesn’t seem to translate into sexual harassment and violence. When you add in an Islamic sense of ideological battle with the west there’s further excuse to dehumanise the victims. And yes, they are sometimes called Islamic grooming gangs because it’s the common denominator. In some gangs, there were non Pakistani men too, Somali, Kurdish if I remember correctly.

This mentality is not from the faith. Are you not able to recognise that?

No mainstream religion says women are fair game.

Survivingnotthriving24 · 19/01/2025 21:36

SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · 19/01/2025 21:31

Well yeah, once you remove all the white Christians from the data pool of gangs that are systematically grooming and raping children then ofc the % of Pakistani Muslims left in the now much diminished pool is going to go up. You can’t take that and then compare it to the general population to say “5 times more likely” . That’s not how you mathematically do a comparative analysis on a per capita basis.

The data shows there is no more likely at all.

It's higher in the overall reporting for this type of crime too, not just when the institutional figures are removed or does that not suit your agenda?

Tittat50 · 19/01/2025 21:37

Twiney2 · 19/01/2025 21:33

Sure. Contact the Islamic Foundation +44 1530 244944

They can provide you with the information so you can learn more.

Thankyou. I'd never feel comfortable calling I'll be honest. I will look online and see if there are a variety of sources to give me a greater understanding of those converting. I think it's important to expand my understanding on that one.

FaithFables · 19/01/2025 21:40

Twiney2 · 19/01/2025 18:26

No religion advocates abusing anybody. People can be twisted independent of faith.

🙄Yes, people from all walks of life abuse people. This is not new information. What did all the Catholic priests that abused children have in common? How were they referred to in the media?

suburburban · 19/01/2025 21:41

A lot of people in the UK have no religion and are atheist

The are not necessarily white Christian itms

TENSsion · 19/01/2025 21:42

SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · 19/01/2025 21:31

Well yeah, once you remove all the white Christians from the data pool of gangs that are systematically grooming and raping children then ofc the % of Pakistani Muslims left in the now much diminished pool is going to go up. You can’t take that and then compare it to the general population to say “5 times more likely” . That’s not how you mathematically do a comparative analysis on a per capita basis.

The data shows there is no more likely at all.

They haven’t removed all the white- Christians. They have removed the groups who don’t use their ethnicity or religion to access their victims.
It’s not a great interpretation of statistics but neither is yours.

ToWhitToWhoo · 19/01/2025 21:43

TENSsion · 19/01/2025 20:17

Can I ask how you feel so confident coming to this conclusion when there was a full enquiry (The Jay Report) into how it happened in Rotherham and it was found, unquestionably, to be because people feared for their jobs if they pursued the perpetrators due to their ethnicity and religion?

Some people did use this as an excuse, yes (in some cases it may even have been genuine); but the Jay Report also says a LOT about horrifying safeguarding failures in the cars system. And about failures of regulation in the taxi driving trade, from which a lot of the perps came.

I don't live in Rotherham, but I live in another town which has had a sexual abuse gang problem; and neglect of those in 'care' and actual victim blaming definitely played an important part.

I actually voted that the OP was unreasonable, because if many perps were Muslim Pakistani-origin taxi drivers, why not say so, as with Catholic priests and teachers. But it should not be used by the Tommy Robinsons of the world to attack all Muslims (or by anti-Catholic organizations to attack all Catholics),

Olga009933 · 19/01/2025 21:43

Tittat50 · 19/01/2025 21:37

Thankyou. I'd never feel comfortable calling I'll be honest. I will look online and see if there are a variety of sources to give me a greater understanding of those converting. I think it's important to expand my understanding on that one.

If you are interested in learning more about the women (or even the men) converting, most larger mosques have disignated study circles and social groups for such "new" Muslims or just people looking to learn about the faith.

OP posts:
eightIsNewNine · 19/01/2025 21:43

I understand the OP would prefer using Pakistani over Muslim.

Part of the question is - which of those two characteristics played a bigger role in police failure to act against them?

KostaBoda · 19/01/2025 21:44

I lived in long-term hostel accommodation during my studies at a specialist music college in a European capital city 35 years ago, aged 15. My home town was too remote for me to study closer to home.

It was an open secret that a gang ran things in the area, consisting of members from a group mentioned upthread and some from a protected minority. There was no religious overlap; the former were Muslim and the latter culturally Catholic. Neither group presented itself as particularly observant or devout. One of the things they ran was the hostel, using the basement to store stolen goods, weapons and drugs, 'guarded' by resident girls like me. We really did think those men were our 'boyfriends' -what I now understand as grooming was so skilfully done. I'd never tried drugs before, but before long I was stoned and out of it all the time. There was also lots of coerced, non-consensual sex, but again, wrapped up in guilt, entrapment and, I'm ashamed to say, crazy reasoning and manipulation which should have been so obvious and easy to see through: "Hey, my cousin is visiting, he's having a hard time -I know you can put a smile back on his face. Can I send him over at half eleven?" So many cousins. And uncles. And associates. So many adults who ought to have paid closer attention and acted.

It's taken me decades to see this for what it was and it was a big contributing factor to why I left my country, on my own, when still a teen, to come to the UK. I'm still in touch with one of the other girls who, like me, was lucky to find an 'out' and seize it.

Men exploiting vulnerability in girls and women is as old as time. It's entirely opportunistic and parasitic and often just a portion of a whole suite of criminal, violent and coercive endeavours in which men like this are simultaneously engaged. I was a passive income stream to the men who I knew then, while they busied themselves with aspects of their business which needed more hands-on presence and attention. Men, irrespective of nationality, ethnicity or creed, seem capable of inflicting suffering like this on women and girls, acting with impunity. I'm not saying that ethnicity or religion are red herrings in the cases reported from towns and cities across the UK, but rather that the common denominator always seems to be men who hate women. Also, wherever there is organised crime, the likelihood is that there will be girls and women exploited, trapped and coerced somewhere as part of those networks, perhaps not systematically raped and trafficked, but harmed and suffering nonetheless, hidden away.

TheGander · 19/01/2025 21:45

Twiney2 · 19/01/2025 21:35

This mentality is not from the faith. Are you not able to recognise that?

No mainstream religion says women are fair game.

The Coran states quite clearly that God made man superior to women. It commands a man to go to his wife as a farmer goes to his field. It advises a man to treat his wive(s) fairly but to beat them if they disobey. Of course it does not advise seeking out vulnerable infidel women with a view to raping them. But I think the premises outlined in the first sentence will help enable some Muslim men in objectifiying women and seeing their suffering as being of less consequence.

Permafrosty · 19/01/2025 21:45

Feelingathomenow · 19/01/2025 21:30

It’s because, finally, people feel like they can mention two very important common elements to these gangs, race and religion.

Of course, there are some outliers, but these two elements are important for understanding and therefore stopping these gangs that are still committing horrendous crimes.

  1. we need to understand if there is a lack of integration by elements of specific communities into British culture and values such that they consider the organised rape and torture of young girls from a different demographic to be acceptable. If this is found to be the case what must change within that culture and how will that be achieved
  2. in a similar vein we need to understand if these people are interpreting a religion to somehow grant them a right over women, esp those of a different religion/race to commit these horrendous acts. If so, this needs to be addressed as this has no place here..
  3. We need to understand if authorities have deliberately failed to address these child rape gangs based on their ethnicity or religion. If this is found to be the case is this a wider issue that has implications for societal cohesion
  4. if 3 above is found. To be the case, we need to understand why and ensure this is addressed both within the relevant institutions and wider society to ensure that everyone realises this is the case.

When people were saying it was important wider investigations took place, it was the above questions they need answering. It appears that the veil of fear has now been pierced and investigations into the above are now being addressed.

Absolutely, given some of the sexual abuse and crimes that have happened at varying scales across different religious communities- it’s time as a secular country to start regulating religion and inspecting what is happening behind closed doors.

Like Ofsted for churches, temples and mosques. Etc. because I suspect the ones who would take issue are the same ones who are teaching things to their communities that are absolutely against our country’s laws and values.

I used to be all for religious freedoms, as long as it doesn’t impact me. But we need to look at the wider impact on society these freedoms cause.

Apparently there is an openly terrorist organisation (Muslim brotherhood I think) that are on the banned lost in places like UAE, but not in this country. WHY.

Feelingathomenow · 19/01/2025 21:46

SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · 19/01/2025 21:31

Well yeah, once you remove all the white Christians from the data pool of gangs that are systematically grooming and raping children then ofc the % of Pakistani Muslims left in the now much diminished pool is going to go up. You can’t take that and then compare it to the general population to say “5 times more likely” . That’s not how you mathematically do a comparative analysis on a per capita basis.

The data shows there is no more likely at all.

tbh it’s completely irrelevant. What we need to understand is, are there groups who are drawn together because of their ethnicity and/or religion who are attacking and raping young girls based on theirs. If so why? Secondly are these groups not being investigated because of fears over being called racist/islamaphobic.

There is not the sane queasiness about discussing similar issues about pardophille priests..

in order to ensure children are safe it is important to understand every aspect that might have fed into these appalling crimes and associates investigations..

SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · 19/01/2025 21:46

Here are some stats

The analysis of the NPCC data reported by the newspaper said there were 4,228 offences of “group-based” child sexual abuse, which made up 3.7% of the 115,489 child sexual abuse and exploitation crimes, including those online, in 2023.

In 2023, the largest proportion of [the 4,228 “group-based”] child sexual abuse suspects were white, accounting for 1,884 (83%), followed by 62 Pakistani suspects (2.7%), the NPCC’s data shows.
https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/national/24849607.grooming-gang-offences-carried-white-men-police-chiefs-say/

The general population is 81% White, and 2.7% Pakistani.
https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/uk-population-by-ethnicity/national-and-regional-populations/population-of-england-and-wales/latest/

SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · 19/01/2025 21:47

TheGander · 19/01/2025 21:45

The Coran states quite clearly that God made man superior to women. It commands a man to go to his wife as a farmer goes to his field. It advises a man to treat his wive(s) fairly but to beat them if they disobey. Of course it does not advise seeking out vulnerable infidel women with a view to raping them. But I think the premises outlined in the first sentence will help enable some Muslim men in objectifiying women and seeing their suffering as being of less consequence.

So do the Torah and the Bible..this means fuck all.

Feelingathomenow · 19/01/2025 21:50

Twiney2 · 19/01/2025 21:33

Sure. Contact the Islamic Foundation +44 1530 244944

They can provide you with the information so you can learn more.

Why can’t you provide the information?

TENSsion · 19/01/2025 21:50

ToWhitToWhoo · 19/01/2025 21:43

Some people did use this as an excuse, yes (in some cases it may even have been genuine); but the Jay Report also says a LOT about horrifying safeguarding failures in the cars system. And about failures of regulation in the taxi driving trade, from which a lot of the perps came.

I don't live in Rotherham, but I live in another town which has had a sexual abuse gang problem; and neglect of those in 'care' and actual victim blaming definitely played an important part.

I actually voted that the OP was unreasonable, because if many perps were Muslim Pakistani-origin taxi drivers, why not say so, as with Catholic priests and teachers. But it should not be used by the Tommy Robinsons of the world to attack all Muslims (or by anti-Catholic organizations to attack all Catholics),

To be honest, I’m past giving a shit if it offends people.
I’ve seen too much abuse by Muslim men be allowed to happen to remain silent. That includes the abuse of Muslim women.
Call me Tommy Robinson. Call me racist. Call me Islamaphobic. I just don’t care anymore.

Azerothi · 19/01/2025 21:50

This kind of religion apologist post is disgusting. So what if the paedo rape gangs are called muslim or Christian or by any faith.

This fucking child rape we are talking about, what the fuck.

Instead of whining because people mention the religion of some gangs just thank the gods it isn't your child!

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