To think we're going to have a generation of adults unable to socialise?

[Ezlo]

By that I mean in restaurants. I see so many kids glued to their iPods in restaurants, barely uttering a word to the rest of their family. The future unsettles me.

I agree with this tbh. Both my and DP's very middle class hands on parents let us have the TV on for hours each night after school. People are much more conscious nowadays.

I remember being home alone all day in the holidays at 12 - I would cook, go out with friends (and lock up the house), go to the pool etc. all without adult supervision - but now there are threads asking about childcare for 14 year olds or whether it's okay to leave a 13 year old for two hours in the evening.

If kids aren't allowed out unsupervised and are stuck at home all day, of course they're going to go and sit on a screen.

I hate this. All the research says it's very bad, even for university kids. And my kids hate it too, even though they have good access to computers - lots of friends are trying to do it on phones! And people wonder why they aren't learning. They would love to just have a text book and work on paper.

They read almost nothing in school, most have no idea even how to use a library.

Why schools think it's ok I do not know.

I agree - our school had to ask parents not to be on their phones when they picked up their children after school, they told them that the children are excited to see them and it was sad to see parents on their phones. They still do it though, always the same ones...

This is kind of bs, isn't it.

It's often quite clear what's going on, and the fact is we all see people around us doing this stuff all day, in homes, out and about, at schools, extended family.

They weren't all up until 4am.

For other people it’s simply because they need a meal and don’t want to cook or wash up themselves. A restaurant isn’t this sacred experience for everyone all the time.

When my friend and I were on holiday last year, the same family sat on an adjoining table every morning. Dad was head down on phone the entire meal. Son (probab;y about 10) was the same. Mum was the same. Daughter (probably about 4) spent the entire meal looking around, looking uncomfortable and clearly wasn't enjoying herself and had no idea what to do about it. I felt really sorry for her.

But not everyone goes out for meals for the same reason.

For some (like you) it's a social event. For others, it's a means to an end. It's a quick meal on the way to the main event, or a quiet "lull" in an otherwise busy schedule.

Then add into the mix the fact that everyone demands to wfh…

Books were once seen as lowbrow entertainment too.

Well some parents did/absent in some way, just like today; the operative word is "some." There certainly wasn't superior parenting back then.

I've been a bus commuter for 50 years and this not what I remember at all. If I know someone I talk to them. If I don't, I don't. That hasn't changed.

Retired women may view bus rides as a social opportunity. Commuters don't. Not even those of us who are officially Old Ladies.

It still happens round here. I had a friend visiting from Sweden, we caught the bus and it was too crowded for us to sit together. I sat next to an old lady, my friend sat on the seat behind us.

The old lady pointed to a building and told me that she went to kindergarten there when she was 4. That she was still friends with two of the girls she met there, and that when they get together they haven't changed a bit, they are still the same people with the same sense of fun, despite now all being 75 years old and not quite so nimble as they were back then. We got into a conversation about how surprising it is to become old on the outside while remaining the same on the inside.

When she got off the bus and my Swedish friend moved to sit next to me she was very curious about the conversation we'd had. She asked how I knew the lady, and how often did we meet? When she found out that I'd never seen the woman before in my life her mind was blown.

She took loads of stories back to Uppsala with her. Including telling everyone that the local bus drivers sing a little song to everyone as they disembark from the bus. Her son asked me if that was true and I was baffled by it, until she sang the "song" for me. None of her English language lessons in Sweden had mentioned that in some places "ta ra" means goodbye, in her mind she decided that it was a little fanfare the local bus drivers had come up with to serenade their departing passengers.

I do remember chatting with someone at a bus stop in the middle of nowhere in Sweden in the 1980s, and gabbing away to them the entire journey. After about 50 minutes she said "I'm glad you spoke to me at the bus stop, it has made this journey pass more quickly. I was a bit worried, until I heard your accent and realised you were just foreign, rather than a mentally unwell Swede". After puzzling over that for a while I asked my Swedish friends what she meant by it and they all agreed that the only Swedish people who strike up conversations with complete strangers are either suffering from mental illness or have just returned from a long spell abroad.

They also explained that the reason people strolling in the park hastened their steps to get away when I greeted them with a cheerful "Good morning!" as we passed on the path, was that it was a short enough phrase for me to sound native so they were scared of what I might do next if they gave me any encouragement. One friend even said "They might be worried you'd follow them home".

After 25 years in Sweden I sometimes get taken by surprise by complete strangers accosting me on the footpath to compliment the colour of my socks, or ask if I had a good Christmas? Which does indicate that there are still some parts of the UK that haven't been completely conquered by the mobile phone. Though I do have to pull my ear plugs out to answer them, and then scroll back afterwards to find where I was in the audiobook or podcast before the interruption.

Oh crikey don’t be coming along with a reasonable post. Think op just wants to froth about the decline of humanity and the good old days where „communities looked out for each other“.

Heaven forbid workers try to have a job that suits their lifestyle.

You need to work full time but are lazy if you look for a wfh job, but you’re a bad parent if your child is in after school clubs every day because why have children at all, but don’t be finishing up a work call in order to wrap up and be with them for the rest of the evening.

The reality if most of the people on these threads are modern day curtain twitchers. Get on with your own life instead of obsessing over what even else does or doesn’t do.

But even before phones they wouldn’t have been having scintillating conversations. But you’d have been fine with them sitting in silence? Thick useless parents who don’t speak to their children weren’t suddenly invented along with mobile phones.

And yet when you work in an office and have a long commute, you're told your kids spend too long in childcare and that's why they're tired or grumpy or having a tantrum...

Exactly. People see screens as the problem, but shit parents are the problem.

Before phones I always read a book or magazine on the bus. It was how I chose to pass the time and I don't see anything wrong with it. I'm friendly, polite and not at all antisocial, but I just like to keep to myself.

I am wondering when this bygone time of happy family visits to restaurants was.

I grew up in the 70s, and visits to restaurants were very infrequent. Pubs would have been extremely smoky, and if kids were allowed, it would be very child unfriendly.

Of the few visits I can remember, they were made extra fun with a glass of cider that you wouldn't get today. Maybe a bit of booze for the kids made the difference?

It's busses and trains journeys that have driven my teen DC to head phones - and frankly having had so many bad journey listening to other people loud often repetitive noise I may have to join them.

They are sometimes on their phone when out to eat - despite my better effort DH been like that - but it's also often a long weekend with IL here and frankly we're all flagging on conversation - and often join in when prompted but if I insisted I probably get nothing from them - so it's a pick your battles thing. As kids they weren't on phones or screen when eating out - it was hard work for me to entertain them while we waited for food or get them doing colouring and avoid descending into bickering .

When they go out with peers now as teen they aren't on phones they talk - and day out with us DD2 especially is often interacting with her peers during the day via phone as well as us.

You have no idea what they're doing on their phone though. Replying to emails from school, paying for a club, checking homework has been done, booking a GP appointment or a Tesco grocery delivery. You can do anything on a phone, it's not just all mindless doomscrolling! Life is so busy that you have to do things on the go. I'm super forgetful, so if I remember I have to do something while I'm walking, I'll whip out my phone and do it there and then, or set a reminder.

I agree there’s a problem with how addictive technology is, but I don’t think the alternative is constant unremitting socialising.

I think what people are losing and need to re learn is our ability to be quiet and alone without tech in our hands. So reading a book, listening to music or just sitting quietly without anything constantly engaging us.

For children, that ability to play on their own with toys without either tech (including the tv) in the background.

And I think it’s a problem that we think the two choices are everyone has to always be engaging with tech or with another person.

There’s a lot in this thread that makes me think there’s a bit of the old “people have a duty to entertain me” at the expense of their own quiet time going on with some (NOT ALL) posters. It’s not a choice of either tech or interacting all the time.

Yes But most people dont have young kids in their early 20’s or mid 40’s and certainly not in their 50’s so that argument only works for a few years.

I am wondering when this bygone time of happy family visits to restaurants was.

It was a huge rare treat eating out in my 80s childhood and still rare but quite much in my teens in 90s.

My kids have eaten out way more than we ever did at much younger ages - partly due to more and cheaper options and partly due to IL visiting and paying for some meals out.