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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Compassionate leave for Miscarriages

179 replies

Hol1st · 16/01/2025 19:25

My employer has refused my request for paid compassionate leave due to a miscarriage at 8 weeks. She was aware of my pregnancy and I only took two days off despite having a sick note for two weeks. Apparently compassionate leave and bereavement leave aren’t to be used under these circumstances and I don’t get paid for sick leave so I’ll lose the wages. I feel so under appreciated and gutted despite all my hard work and value I’ve brought to the company, two days off isn’t approved. AIBU to be upset by this or is it normal practice?
i really really hope the new proposals for paid compassionate leave to be available under these circumstances goes ahead soon

OP posts:
IVFmumoftwo · 17/01/2025 10:58

KimberleyClark · 17/01/2025 10:52

I stand corrected. And while I may not know much about actual pregnancy I know a great deal more than I want to about failed IVF. My point stands however that women would not be aware of chemical pregnancies before the advent of very early pre missed period pregnancy testing.

Edited

Chemical pregnancy is classed as up to six weeks so most would be aware of it especially if TTC. After the six week point it is classed more as a miscarriage .

Floralnomad · 17/01/2025 11:03

💐 but this comes under sick leave . I’d just take this as a reason to find a job with either a more caring employer or one that at least pays sick pay .

DancefloorAcrobatics · 17/01/2025 11:05

What I find strange, in the last 20 or so years, is how quickly people count pregnancies

I think it's part of the trend is that many women/ couples are having fewer children later in life.

OnceUponASausage · 17/01/2025 11:06

IVFmumoftwo · 17/01/2025 10:58

Chemical pregnancy is classed as up to six weeks so most would be aware of it especially if TTC. After the six week point it is classed more as a miscarriage .

Complete bollocks. The recurrent miscarriage clinic doesn’t agree with you. And they would know, being the experts. Stop trying to minimise it. A chemical pregnancy is a miscarriage. Miscarriages before 6 weeks are not classed as chemical pregnancies. They are miscarriages.

I can see you’ve had IVF so you must be familiar with the stress of early scans. You should know better.

burnoutbabe · 17/01/2025 11:11

the main issue is trying to write any policy that covers the real cases and the people who fake it for 2 weeks off. As that would happen if it was legistated for as a policy of paid leave. And oftem there is "no proof" if early days.

So how does one provide against women taking the piss? (and men if open to partners too to claim this leave)

NinaGeiger · 17/01/2025 11:15

I'm livid at the responses saying "miscarriage is common so it's fair enough."

You know what it's even more common than miscarriage? Bereavement. 1 in 4 women experience a miscarriage.
The proportion of people who experience the death of a parent, spouse or family member at some point in their lives is a hell of a lot higher than that.

Compassionate leave isn't there because bereavement is this rare experience most people never encounter. It's there because it can be impossible to do your job when someone has just died.

It's shit that your company doesn't pay sick leave and the attitude of your manager is shit too. I'm a manager and I would've given compassionate leave because it's really important to a) not make people's lives even harder during a shit time and b) it's short-sighted not to make good employees feel well looked after.

IVFmumoftwo · 17/01/2025 11:17

OnceUponASausage · 17/01/2025 11:06

Complete bollocks. The recurrent miscarriage clinic doesn’t agree with you. And they would know, being the experts. Stop trying to minimise it. A chemical pregnancy is a miscarriage. Miscarriages before 6 weeks are not classed as chemical pregnancies. They are miscarriages.

I can see you’ve had IVF so you must be familiar with the stress of early scans. You should know better.

Edited

Sorry I wasn't minimising it. I just read it was called a chemical pregnancy rather than a miscarriage although obviously it is a loss and to be grieved for.

OnceUponASausage · 17/01/2025 11:44

IVFmumoftwo · 17/01/2025 11:17

Sorry I wasn't minimising it. I just read it was called a chemical pregnancy rather than a miscarriage although obviously it is a loss and to be grieved for.

I wasn’t fast enough on the edit, and this next bit is me having a general complain about the use of the phrase rather than being aimed at you.

Having been through 4 pregnancies under the recurrent miscarriage clinic I am acutely aware that the heartbeat can often be seen before 6 weeks, and that by 5 weeks you can see the baby taking shape. A 6 week foetus even more so. There is nothing chemical about that.

People use the term incorrectly, and often it is used to minimise, whether to make themselves feel better (I get why people would want to do this!) or to try to tell others they shouldn’t be upset because it was ‘just a chemical pregnancy’. No, it was a miscarriage, and I wish people would examine their motives for telling a woman who just suffered pregnancy loss that her loss doesn’t count because it was too early. It’s a very antiquated attitude that has no place in 2025. We are not in the dark ages where you weren't pregnant until you missed 3 periods, and you went back to work 6 weeks after having your baby. We’ve come so far medically and socially in the last 40 years.

The phrase chemical pregnancy really only applies to miscarriages that happen pretty much immediately after implantation. Unless you know that this is the exact point your miscarriage happened then using chemical pregnancy to describe it is incorrect.

In maternity terms, and in terms of any treatment or consultants I’ve had relating to recurrent miscarriage, I’ve never heard this phrase used. It’s always referred to as a miscarriage, whatever early stage the loss took place.

The use of the term chemical pregnancy, often applied incorrectly because not all very early losses are chemical pregnancies, stops women getting the help they need to identify underlying conditions. They should also be included in the 3 losses required before investigations take place (they are actually included but people don’t realise because simple language isn’t used), which is another reason I caution people not to use it as a term to minimise what happened - whether applying it to themself or others, that’s why it’s important to call them what they are - miscarriages. There are some medical conditions that can cause a pregnancy to fail right after implantation (I have one!) and these are not chemical pregnancies, these should be attributed to the medical conditions and treated, which won’t happen if women are told or tell themself ‘it’s just a chemical pregnancy’.

If you have repeated very early miscarriages then that’s indicative of a problem that needs investigating. It’s important to make sure your GP records it as a pregnancy loss.

I am now stepping down from my soapbox but I hope this comment is read by someone who needs to read it to realise their early losses also need investigation.

OnceUponASausage · 17/01/2025 11:50

Also OP get another job. Find a better employer. My partner was given a week of compassionate leave for each of my miscarriages. I was given a combination of compassionate leave and sick leave. Your manager could give you this but is choosing not to. Don’t give them any more of your working life than you have to. There are better employers out there. I now work somewhere with a miscarriage policy. 2 weeks automatic paid leave and is recorded under bereavement. Staff can still take sick leave after this if they need to and that is recorded under maternity related sickness.X

mitogoshigg · 17/01/2025 11:52

At 8 weeks I would hope an employer would give the day of plus a couple of extra days off without need to loose pay but to be honest it's very common.

Miscarrying at 16 weeks or 23 weeks even is very different because you are past the 12 week "safe point" and seen the scan.

Sick leave is for when you can't come in for health reasons whereas compassionate leave is for when you aren't sick but something bad has happened. The real problem is how bad some employers are with sick leave pay

PointsSouth · 17/01/2025 11:54

ThejoyofNC · 16/01/2025 20:07

So sorry OP. I personally think it should come under bereavement leave.

They won't do that because they'd be admitting that a life was lost, which would upset abortion activists.

No, the leave is to give space and time to the employee. It’s so that one of your options to recover is staying out of the workplace. It’s not a recognition of the unborn.

Indeed, any compassionate leave is for the employee, and it’s there to give the employee an option. Some will take time out. Some will take the option of continuing to work normally. Some will take on huge amounts of overtime. Depends on how one handles such things.

So giving options doesn’t define what’s happened. It offers ways to cope.

shedidwhatnan · 17/01/2025 12:04

mitogoshigg · 17/01/2025 11:52

At 8 weeks I would hope an employer would give the day of plus a couple of extra days off without need to loose pay but to be honest it's very common.

Miscarrying at 16 weeks or 23 weeks even is very different because you are past the 12 week "safe point" and seen the scan.

Sick leave is for when you can't come in for health reasons whereas compassionate leave is for when you aren't sick but something bad has happened. The real problem is how bad some employers are with sick leave pay

I went on maternity leave when I had a 23 week delivery

RunningFromThePastHell · 17/01/2025 12:11

@mitogoshigg
Sick leave is for when you can't come in for health reasons whereas compassionate leave is for when you aren't sick but something bad has happened. The real problem is how bad some employers are with sick leave pay

I'm not sure it's so clear cut. As someone about to undergo IVF, I could have a straightforward miscarriage medically speaking, but mentally be utterly broken (especially if last round of IVF, last chance). Presumably you're thinking that would be "mental health", but then surely reasons for compassionate leave could equally be classed as mental health?

I wonder if the balanced solution is to have it as sick leave, but it has to be paid from day 1 (rather than waiting 4 days in the case of SSP). Or has to be paid for say 3 days as full pay? (And retaining the current rule that sick leave for pregnancy reasons isn't treated the same way as other sickness.)

ChristmasRager · 17/01/2025 12:12

This seems aggressively unfair and I would consider raising a formal grievance. Who are they to say what is and isn't a loss? It's just devastating for you.

cadburyegg · 17/01/2025 12:40

Gosh, usually MN is quite understanding about pregnancy loss but I'm very shocked at some of these heartless comments. I'm so sorry for your loss OP.

I had a miscarriage nearly 8 years ago. It completely knocked me for six. I started bleeding a few days prior to my 12 week scan then on the day of the scan I had labour pains for several hours, it was my second pregnancy so i'd already been through a full blown labour, I knew what it felt with. The hospital I had my scan in confirmed the miscarriage and sent us to another hospital where the whole process happened. I lost so much blood and clots I passed out on the bed, it was fortunate I was already in hospital so they could give me an injection to stop the bleeding. I was in hospital all day and sent home in the evening. Still in a lot of pain several days later I had to go back to hospital to be admitted as there were "retained products" stuck in my cervix which they retrieved. All of these procedures I went through with no pain relief. This time an overnight hospital stay. I pushed for a scan which confirmed my body hadn't expelled everything so I had an emergency D&C 2 days later. After that I got a womb infection (unsurprising, given all I'd been through) and needed antibiotics.

One of the most horrifying experiences of my life, and that's before any of the emotional pain I was going through. I took 3 weeks sick leave on full pay, but I remember going back to work and I was treated like I'd just been ill with a stomach bug, I was expected to just get back to normal. For that reason I'd welcome leave specifically for women who have lost pregnancies prior to the 24 week mark. There is nil understanding of what women can go through. So many people think it's just a case of putting on a maxi pad and getting on with it, even this thread has demonstrated that. I still think of that little baby and who it might have become Star

DrinkFeckArseBrick · 17/01/2025 13:16

It's shit but i don't think it's that easy for companies to go against their own procedure. They have formal written criteria for compassionate leave. Unless this procedure has something written in for managers to give it at their discretion (eg if someone is too upset to work because their pet or lifelong best friend has died) then yanbu

OnceUponASausage · 17/01/2025 13:20

DrinkFeckArseBrick · 17/01/2025 13:16

It's shit but i don't think it's that easy for companies to go against their own procedure. They have formal written criteria for compassionate leave. Unless this procedure has something written in for managers to give it at their discretion (eg if someone is too upset to work because their pet or lifelong best friend has died) then yanbu

There’s always the space for manager or HR discretion.

TheBucketFamily · 17/01/2025 13:36

wsdr · 16/01/2025 20:30

1 in 10 pregnancies end in miscarriage in younger women (under 30), rising to 1 in 2 for women over 45 (NHS figures). Most of these are early in the pregnancies.

One of the impacts of home pregnancy tests is that nowadays many women know they are pregnant from very early on. In the past early miscarriages were often " a late period". I suspect this early confirmation of pregnancies has increased distress.

I know many will disagree but I am not sure how justified compassionate leave is for isolated early miscarriage.

Yes, that's true. With my first pregnancy I didn't find out I was pregnant till I was 11 weeks. The next time it was 9 weeks and the 3rd pregnancy it was 8 weeks.

The GP wouldn't do a pregnancy test until a woman had missed at least 2 periods. This was of course before pregnancy tests became available to buy in pharmacies. You had to take a urine sample to the GP. The test was not as sensitive as those available nowadays and it couldn't usually detect a pregnancy before about 8 weeks.

JHound · 17/01/2025 13:38

Hol1st · 16/01/2025 19:25

My employer has refused my request for paid compassionate leave due to a miscarriage at 8 weeks. She was aware of my pregnancy and I only took two days off despite having a sick note for two weeks. Apparently compassionate leave and bereavement leave aren’t to be used under these circumstances and I don’t get paid for sick leave so I’ll lose the wages. I feel so under appreciated and gutted despite all my hard work and value I’ve brought to the company, two days off isn’t approved. AIBU to be upset by this or is it normal practice?
i really really hope the new proposals for paid compassionate leave to be available under these circumstances goes ahead soon

Are you not on the UK hence you don’t get paid sick leave?

This is sad though. That your employer is so regimented about it.

Hol1st · 17/01/2025 17:05

Thankyou for the kind comments on here.
Some not so kind.
I have a very “get on with it” attitude and the time off I had was nothing to do with the sadness of the loss (though it was of course really sad) but it was because of the physical pain of the miscarriage itself.
Everyone is right who suggested it’s the sick leave policy that is wrong, and the fact no paid sick leave (beyond statutory) is available to anyone in the company I work for.
Unfortunately it leaves a sour taste in people’s mouths when they work hard and don’t get a little benefit every now and again, I must say there’s a lot wrong with the company which is probably why this stung even more.
I’m not going to post on here again, or get into a debate about what “qualifies” as a loss/bereavement or where the line should be drawn. I’m glad it’s not my job to work that out.
thanks again for the nice replies when I was just feeling shit about everything, and I’m sorry to read lots of similar stories. Let’s hope the current parliament discussions come up with a solution that protects our physical and mental health in such circumstances in the future.

OP posts:
heroinechic · 17/01/2025 17:17

Sorry for your loss OP. I had an ectopic pregnancy discovered at 7 and a half weeks and it knocked me. I had two weeks off work (paid) but it was under sick leave. I work in the public sector. My manager was surprised that I was happy to return after two weeks.

If you're generally feeling under appreciated at work maybe it's time to start looking elsewhere x

ARealitycheck · 17/01/2025 22:07

IVFmumoftwo · 17/01/2025 10:50

I had a miscarriage at about 10 weeks. I nearly ended up in hospital in an ambulance because I bled that much (far more than my childbirths). It took several months to feel physically normal so even an early miscarriage can mean you need plenty of time off.

Wouldn't that be covered by sick pay? What is being discussed is compassionate leave not physical health.

reddyapple · 17/01/2025 22:33

So sorry op.

When I had a miscarriage (9 weeks) my manager (f mid 40's with no kids) after I sat explaining in floods of tears for 15 minutes, went in to say 'let's not think about that now, let's focus on work....'
I had no words and burst into tears again.

I read that back and I can't believe she said it- if someone else told me this I wouldn't believe it.

She's the second highest person in the entire company.

OnceUponASausage · 17/01/2025 22:48

reddyapple · 17/01/2025 22:33

So sorry op.

When I had a miscarriage (9 weeks) my manager (f mid 40's with no kids) after I sat explaining in floods of tears for 15 minutes, went in to say 'let's not think about that now, let's focus on work....'
I had no words and burst into tears again.

I read that back and I can't believe she said it- if someone else told me this I wouldn't believe it.

She's the second highest person in the entire company.

Please leave. That’s not the right place for anyone x

MixedFeelings72 · 23/01/2025 17:38

Reading this belatedly having started bleeding last night at around 5 weeks pregnant. I only ready the first 2 pages of comments but I was surprised at how cold some of them are. I just wanted to say I’m very sorry you went through this. Our bereavement/compassionate leave policy allows up to 2 weeks for miscarriage and still birth, but at the discretion of the manager. I’m due to be returning to work next week post maternity leave so undecided as to whether I want to tell my manager, or take any time off, I’m not in pain at the moment (feels like usual period cramping), but I am glad I have the potential option to do so as per our policy.

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