Compassionate leave for Miscarriages

[Hol1st]

My employer has refused my request for paid compassionate leave due to a miscarriage at 8 weeks. She was aware of my pregnancy and I only took two days off despite having a sick note for two weeks. Apparently compassionate leave and bereavement leave aren’t to be used under these circumstances and I don’t get paid for sick leave so I’ll lose the wages. I feel so under appreciated and gutted despite all my hard work and value I’ve brought to the company, two days off isn’t approved. AIBU to be upset by this or is it normal practice?
i really really hope the new proposals for paid compassionate leave to be available under these circumstances goes ahead soon

Also if you bothered to read the thread and OP’s actual request, she’s asking for compassionate leave, not bereavement leave - they’re two different things.

I am so sorry for your loss. I had two losses before having my children and it was horrible. I was off sick for 3 days I think each time.

Unfortunately this wouldn't fit under compassionate leave where I work either. As an employee and a line manager I couldn't justify it. I'd hope that your workplace would or could show some compassion considering you don't get sick pay though

I really can’t believe some of the comments on this section.

From an employers POV if you have a colleague trying to come in who is struggling - be that with MH, bereavement of a non immediate family member, other issues such as miscarriage….what good does it do the company? You have an unhappy employee and that will also affect work being done. Give people discretionary paid leave, even if it’s only a short duration, and treat your employees well. Be supportive.

Just be nice.

If you can’t do that and you’re in HR, you’re in the wrong job.

I’ve assumed that OP isn’t getting sick pay because she had used her entitlement rather than there just isn’t any. If taking two weeks off sick under medical advice is not financially viable for her now my advice would be to double check what the mat leave package is now and start making appropriate preparations if she is still TTC. My expectation is that a company with stingy sick pay policy also would have a stingy mat leave package.

As a manager, if a doctor has signed someone off for two weeks I don’t really want them back in until they are signed fit again. It is not in anyone’s best interest to have someone working if they are unwell. However I would be comfortable making assessments about whether to allow sick leave and discretionary sick pay based on what the doctor has advised the employee and don’t see the need for a blanket one size fits all approach. You might be forcing some people not to work when actually a return routine could be beneficial for them while other people might be completely floored for some time after the event. It is very circumstantial.

"I’ve assumed that OP isn’t getting sick pay because she had used her entitlement rather than there just isn’t any. "

Not sure why you would assume that. The OP should join a union and/or find a company willing to pay sick pay.

Miscarriage IS the death of a child though, even an early one.

I can't imagine the horror and pain you must have experienced with all that. I'm so sorry for your losses.

Im sorry for your loss. I think your company should give you time off if that is what you need. I personally would just tell them I am not well and get a letter from the doctor. I personally don’t like sharing the ins and outs with employers if they do not need to know - and I do find that most people are very insensitive about women’s issues anyway - there is more compassion for someone that has had their gallbladder removed than someone that has gone through a miscarriage- and it shouldn’t be this way. I think until we stop seeing pregnancy and parenthood as such a negative towards women, then we have to approach these situations by telling them we are sick, need the time off and that’s that. Of course sick leave has its limits, but if you need the time off then you do.

I hope the next comment doesn’t come across as insensitive, but I am thinking about people that have had to take time off after an abortion. Would it fall in a similar category?

Yes I was expecting it to be under managers discretions and given in my case. I didn’t take the piss with the time off I took, I was in a lot of pain physically and took two days to at least partially recover from that before returning to work. I understand two weeks off for every woman who experiences a miscarriage could soon add up from a business perspective, but I had hoped two days would be given with compassion.
I can see the responses are mixed and it has made me look at it from another perspective instead of being angry. Though I am reconsidering my position at the company, i think this is just on top of a lot of reasons not to work there anymore.

Thankyou and I’m sorry for your loss. I was angry about the sick leave because it is unpaid, a previous poster was correct that this is my problem really, not that it is being classed as sick leave in general.
I am feeling much better, but I’m sure it’s something that will stay with me forever. I hope you are doing well now too

This is incorrect, my work attendance record is almost perfect. My company offer no sick pay entitlement beyond SSP at all.

I was very surprised at the physicality of a miscarriage. My pains were very similar to that of my previous successful labour and it was not just a “heavy period”.

No sick pay, and SMP only at my company.
You are kind of right about the financial situation and loosing the pay for sick leave was inconvenient and frustrating, but not debilitating (luckily for us). We had a 8 months to prepare for maternity leave and I wasn’t concerned about that. We hope to be lucky enough to have another baby soon.

If a company don’t offer paid sick leave they aren’t going to offer paid leave for a miscarriage.

I don’t think an early miscarriage should have a special type of leave or count as bereavement leave however it’s up to the woman to go to her doctor and get signed off depending on how much it has impacted her, or self certify.

Same here - BUT - I got paid sick leave for a the fortnight I took with the first plus used a week’s annual leave (in the summer) when I would have been off with DS1, plus a couple of days with mc 2&3 which were earlier/dealt with via ERPC.

Whatever the name, there needs to be paid leave.

I coped better by interpreting mine as early losses that many women have, and I managed the first two as heavy/long periods. But my DM’s early loss was a massive haemorrhage in which she collapsed- so we need to recognise that even the physical aspects of an 8-12 week mc can be very different.

I'm so sorry for your loss and struggles op.

I really thought I'd be OK with a miscarriage, I knew it was common, I never assumed my pregnancy woils result in a child, we didn't even refer to it as a baby. Still, miscarriage at 10 weeks was the hardest thing I've been through. I was numb and unproductive at work for weeks. And that was with a fairly physically easy miscarriage. It's so hard.

@Lollypop267 the need to say we are all different about how we feel about early miscarriage is needed because there are comments on here that are actually saying we are not allowed to rationalise and just feel sad but understand it wasn’t a loss of a person or a tragedy. Anyone saying it’s not a bereavement needing time off to grieve for is being shouted down as horrible and we should agree it’s devastating and equivalent to losing a loved one. Well no it’s not. I understand that everyone is different and some may feel emotionally battered but not everyone does and it’s wrong to say that we are wrong for feeling differently.

Some of these responses are apalling. This was not an early chemical pregnancy, there will have been a scan.
I am so sorry for your loss; your boss not approving two days is heartless. I'd adjust my loyalty/work effort to the business accordingly.

Agree, company with minimum sick pay isn’t going to have generous leave policies / manager discretion in general, and managers will be expected to implement the hard policies.

You had a sick note so could have had more time off sick and because it was pregnancy related they can't count it for any action around your level of sick absence.

when I experienced recurrent mc had a good company but awful line manager I didn’t trust to tell about it, I took sick leave and didn’t say why, realising how bad she was part of the reason I sought another job.

I find it interesting that so many people appear to think no leave should be granted. Our son was born at 23 weeks and 5 days. It was classed as a miscarriage as before 24 weeks. I was in labour for over 20 hours. I was not entitled to compassionate leave as it was a ‘miscarriage’.

This is absolutely the case. The OP is entitled to SSP, but unless she was on less than minimum wage, that wont cover the loss of income, so she is asking for paid compassionate leave instead. I very much doubt that an employer who doesn’t give paid sick leave will definitely not give paid compassionate leave.
Sadly, there are myriad employers who fit this category.
The difficulty is, how would you determine how much compassionate leave you give in different circumstances. Some employers give as little as 3 days paid CL off for the death of a spouse / child. They’d clearly not give the same or more off for an early miscarriage.

That’s open to discussion - a 4 week embryo is not a child, for example.

The argument about no leave for miscarriage because its relatively common is nonsense. It is a much more common life experience to lose a parent but this doesn't exclude this loss from compassionate leave.

Miscarriage isn't just shrugging over a loss of a few cells, it is massive emotional and physical upheaval. Progesterone and estrogen levels drop like a stone and its very difficult to think clearly, and an 8 week loss will involve passing pregnancy tissue. It is uniquely traumatic and anyone who doesn't think this warrants a few days of compassionate leave should think about hw it would feel to flush a wanted pregnancy down the toilet.

People who aren’t anti-choice forced birth misogynists don’t tell other women what to do with their wombs OR their feelings.

Some women will experience significant grief and should be able to access leave.

Its quite gross to try and hijack this to push an anti-choice agenda.

I’m sorry OP, a good employer should offer more.