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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

DS has been offered jobs in Qatar and UAE

228 replies

Sooptimisim · 15/01/2025 05:29

DS is 26, he works in finance and has a good job in London. He has recently informed us that he has been offered jobs in both Doha and Dubai and is heavily considering taking them.
I know it’s not up to me but I really can’t settle at the thought of him moving to either of these countries. I associate them with poor women’s rights, little political freedom/freedom of speech etc.
I am trying to be supportive but I’m actually finding it very hard to be.
It isn’t about him moving away as my DD is in Australia doing a masters degree, it’s just the terrible women’s (and human) rights etc.

AIBU to ask him to consider all of this before making a decision?

OP posts:
sunshinestar1986 · 17/01/2025 00:40

LostittoBostik · 15/01/2025 08:44

"We need to get with it"? What, get with being ok about women having a chaperone outside the home until marriage?
I'll pass thanks.

Why do you persist in having these ridiculous beliefs? 🤣
How does it serve you?
Believe what you want, just know you're a bit silly and completely ignorant.

crumblingschools · 17/01/2025 00:44

Are there male guardians?

InWalksBarberalla · 17/01/2025 01:15

sunshinestar1986 · 17/01/2025 00:37

Getting raped there is ridiculously rare almost unheard off
Also, many women are also not believed in the UK
Remember why the me too movement exists!

Yeah I'm sceptical about the numbers given reporting consequences. Also I don't see why rates of rape would be hugely different in expat communities than in their home countries. The expat men just know there is way less chance ( compared to the already low chance) of it being reported than at home due to possible consequences to their victims.

Jaybail · 17/01/2025 05:47

My son took a job in Dubai and I hated him going. I missed the first 3 years of my grandson's life.
But - he had an amazing standard of living, both he and DIL worked and had a live in Nanny to care for my grandson. They sent me airplane tickets to go over for Christmas each year and I had 3 wonderful visits. I was treated with nothing but respect by everyone I met over there - acquaintances, shopkeepers, taxi drivers etc - and felt safer out alone than I do in my hometown.
Yes, there are a number of rules to follow which can have serious consequences if you don't obey them, I once touched my son's arm while we were in a supermarket to get his attention and he jumped away - no displays of affection in public! I guess if your son is determined to go the best advice I can give is to tell him to make sure he knows what he is getting into, to follow the rules to the letter and to make sure he always keeps enough money to one side to relocate at short notice if it doesn't work out.

Ncncncncncncncncd · 17/01/2025 05:59

Not sure what year that was but I regularly grabbed my DH's arm or waist to drag him away from some stalls in the waterfront market last year. He did same to me in spice and gold souks🤣 Handholding is absolutely fine in UAE. How else would you stop your other half dashing for the shop? 😂 No one batted an eyelid. People do touch. Little half hug and cheek air kisses within women group, man do the same. Handshaking etc. Full on hugs and kissing are not though.
Normal physical contact is allowed. Iykwim.

sunshinestar1986 · 17/01/2025 06:00

InWalksBarberalla · 17/01/2025 01:15

Yeah I'm sceptical about the numbers given reporting consequences. Also I don't see why rates of rape would be hugely different in expat communities than in their home countries. The expat men just know there is way less chance ( compared to the already low chance) of it being reported than at home due to possible consequences to their victims.

Be skeptical all you want, women are way safer there than in Europe 😏

Letlooseonthedanse · 17/01/2025 07:49

‘Getting raped there is ridiculously rare almost unheard off’

’ridiculously never reported and unheard of because if that’ - fixed it for you.

Letlooseonthedanse · 17/01/2025 08:00

From HRW - rape is unreported because men are believed over women, and women can prosecuted for ‘having sec’ when the man says it’s consensual. And if Emirati women and expat women - essentially those at the top of society are afraid to report what do you think that means for all the migrant women doing the servants and staff, doing the cooking, cleaning, childcare - whose passports are held by their employers?

same goes for male rape except men would also have the threat of imprisonment or death for ‘homosexual activity’

unless the claim is that men in the UAE are the only ones in the world NOT abusing women?

But hey, it’s got beaches, giant shopping malls and low taxes, and cheap CHEAP domestic staff to ease your expat life.

‘In the United Arab Emirates, a country that prides itself on modernity and its willingness to advance women's rights, the criminal court in Abu Dhabi has sentenced an 18-year-old Emirati woman to a year in prison for illicit sex after she reported that six men had gang-raped her.
Sadly, her treatment, though outrageous, is not unusual in the UAE. It comes as no surprise that more than half of Emirati women questioned in a survey in January by the YouGov Siraj consulting organisation said they would not report sexual assault or rape to police.
The woman, whose name authorities have not made public, said in court that she had agreed to go for a drive with a 19-year-old male friend. News media reported that she said the friend called five other men to meet them, and when they arrived, they raped her.
During the first hearing on 17 May in Abu Dhabi's criminal court, the six men were charged with rape, four in absentia as the authorities had not found them. The forensics unit at the Abu Dhabi judicial department noted that evidence of assault was visible on the woman's body. Despite the physical evidence and the charges against all six men, the criminal court also charged the woman with illicit sex, or sex outside marriage, which is punishable by imprisonment and flogging in the UAE. The prosecutor argued that the fact that she went for a drive with a man was sufficient proof that she consented to having sex.
A week later, during the second hearing, the woman retracted her statement, reportedly to avoid lashes and a jail sentence for extramarital sex. She said that she was beaten by her brother after he found out that she had been speaking to men, and that as a result, she decided to report that she had been raped.
On 13 June, the Abu Dhabi criminal court sentenced both the woman and her 19-year-old friend to one year in prison for engaging in consensual sex. The court acquitted all the men of rape, finding four of them guilty of less serious charges of "moral crime".
The UAE has made commendable strides in promoting women's education, entrepreneurship and political participation. When it comes to seeking justice for sexual violence, however, women in the UAE still face formidable - and often insurmountable - barriers.
Rape is a serious crime in the UAE, but the very act of reporting a rape automatically puts a woman in danger of being charged with illicit sex. The law places an almost impossible burden of proof on rape victims to show that sex was nonconsensual.
In a similar case reported earlier this year, a British woman told Dubai police that a hotel worker raped her while she was on vacation in Dubai with her fiancé to celebrate their engagement. The Dubai criminal court charged the woman and her fiancé with having sex outside marriage. The same court charged the hotel worker with rape.
When the couple provided documents to prove that they were planning to get married, the extramarital sex charges against them were dropped. But the court also freed the hotel worker, and the public prosecutor appears to have concluded that the woman had fabricated the story.
On top of risking prosecution, a rape survivor in the UAE is also likely to face ostracism by society, and even her family. For many Emiratis, a family's honour depends on a woman's good reputation, and society is quick to judge sexual assault victims as "immoral".
By making it almost impossible for a victim to prove rape, and then treating the brave few who choose to report rape as criminals, the UAE discriminates against women and violates their fundamental right to due process of the law. This treatment causes women to live in fear and makes the trauma of rape worse.

crumblingschools · 17/01/2025 08:21

Isn’t domestic violence legal as well as husbands are allowed to chastise their wife.

And all the posters saying it is so safe there, which class of society do you belong to? Low income immigrant worker? Wonder how safe it is for the very poorly paid nannies? Could they safely report any sexual assault from their male employer?

justasking111 · 17/01/2025 09:42

sunshinestar1986 · 17/01/2025 00:29

So much work is done to protect women in the UK so how has that helped?
It is getting worse, not better
The reason for women spaces in the middle east is cultural/religious not fir safety reasons and women getting unalived by men is so rare!
And yet an average of 2 women a week are unalived by male significant others in the UK. Even more if you count all men and not just significant others
So is women's safety merely lip service in the UK?
I mean even the police sometimes transgress against women.
So, clearly spaces for women would be welcome/even neccassary!

Sadly true. We can't even protect children.

Ncncncncncncncncd · 17/01/2025 10:24

Isn’t domestic violence legal as well as husbands are allowed to chastise their wife.
No. Very easy to find the decrees

Re class. I am assumimg OP's son is not a poor domestic worker so our experiences apply

crumblingschools · 17/01/2025 10:26

@Ncncncncncncncncd but the many objections about Dubai are not about the rich expats in their cosy compound

Velociraptorz · 17/01/2025 10:26

Totally with you OP. You can’t make the decision but you can ask him to think about what it means

Ncncncncncncncncd · 17/01/2025 10:38

crumblingschools · 17/01/2025 10:26

@Ncncncncncncncncd but the many objections about Dubai are not about the rich expats in their cosy compound

Probably as difficult to report as it is in UK for abused workers and aupairs

Bouledeneige · 17/01/2025 10:41

I share reservations about the regime and the treatment of women and migrant workers. I really didn't like it when I got a free holiday there for that reason but also because it's not really my kind of place. Glitzy shopping malls with ski slopes and Prada, luxury hotels and limousines.

But my nephew when he lived there did not live in a compound with staff.

Stillshepersisted · 17/01/2025 11:41

crumpet · 15/01/2025 08:52

Chaperones in UAE and Qatar? That’s news to me. I know several women who have and do like and work in both of these places, including as singles.

Yes, woman here, working in Doha, no chaperone required. I’m also allowed to drive, have my own bank account, go running, drink alcohol, could attend the local Christian church (if that was my thing) and a whole lot of other stuff that might surprise you. The Amir’s mother here is a very powerful and influential woman who strongly believes in education - particularly for women. There is SO much good that goes on that most of you will know nothing of in terms of medical research, charity work, education, diplomacy…it makes me sad that people back home swallow all of the disinformation about the Middle East without question. Best move ever for us - my autistic daughter is having an amazing education with proper support, access to world class doctors and - acceptance! She didn’t get any of that back in the UK.

Stillshepersisted · 17/01/2025 11:46

Mumek · 16/01/2025 02:38

My Husband, sons and I lived and worked in the Middle East from 1979 to 2012. Qatar 1979 to 1983. Oman 3 years then Bahrain for 20 years and Qatar again 2004 to 2012. I held a senior postion as General Manager and 95% of my staff were male, Qataris,Bahrainis,Omanis, Indian,Pakistanis, Canadians,Americans,Phillipinos and Rumanians. I was always treated with utmost respect and always felt 100% safe. I genuinely can't think of any occasion when I felt disrespected or threatened. When attending a meeting with devout Muslim men who due to their religion couldn't shake my hand - their hand went to touch their heart. I feel sad at the misconceptions people who have never visited the ME hold. So please encourage your son to grab this opportunity and I assure you that you will love your visits out to see him. I should add I haven't worked in Dubai - first visited in 1979 when it was a fishing village - but have held many business meetings there and actually prefer Qatar. I should add I wore the same clothes that I would wear here in the UK - normal business and leisure wear.

So much this - I’m still in Qatar now and it is absolutely nothing like people think it is back home. I get homesick - but for the people I love back home, not the UK.

Stillshepersisted · 17/01/2025 11:49

Mamathebest · 16/01/2025 01:44

None of my relatives in Dubai/Saudi or Qatar have to worry about their teenage child being stabbed to death on their way to school either.

Could not agree more. 🙌🏽

crumblingschools · 17/01/2025 11:53

@Stillshepersisted would that be the same if someone is gay? Little income? Do the people who built the stadiums for World Cup have the same rights, access to facilities as you?

Mumek · 17/01/2025 12:06

crumblingschools We lived in the ME for 35 years and had several gay friends , both local and western. On very well known gay couple ran a restaurant together. They were never harrassed or arrested.

Letlooseonthedanse · 17/01/2025 12:09

Ncncncncncncncncd · 17/01/2025 10:24

Isn’t domestic violence legal as well as husbands are allowed to chastise their wife.
No. Very easy to find the decrees

Re class. I am assumimg OP's son is not a poor domestic worker so our experiences apply

Ah well then, so long as he’s male and white and British and king of the shit heap, who cares?

Stillshepersisted · 17/01/2025 12:15

crumblingschools · 17/01/2025 11:53

@Stillshepersisted would that be the same if someone is gay? Little income? Do the people who built the stadiums for World Cup have the same rights, access to facilities as you?

Yes it is. Nobody cares if you are gay. In terms of low income this is massively nuanced - I’ve had long conversations with uber drivers, cleaners, maintenance guys, their home countries have no opportunities, they can come to the Middle East and find work - yes, there is some exploitation but the difference in currency value means they can feed their whole family and send their kids to school, getting them out of poverty. It’s not black and white. I don’t see the UK scrambling to let cleaners from Kerala go and work there…ironic given that the British absolutely plundered India to the tune of trillions of dollars. Lastly, World Cup stadium construction- I worked for a company who project managed the construction of 4 of the stadiums. I dealt with the insurance policies. We did not have a single death in the five years prior to me working there. I KNOW this because I saw all of the records - and was responsible for keeping them. As a company we didn’t have the money to not claim the insurance policy in the event of a death - we would have to compensate the family, we had a shareholder to explain ourselves to, so genuinely, nobody died on the job! The figures published in the Guardian were retracted - those were deaths for every nationality, in any job, in the ten years prior to the World Cup. Two of our engineers died of cancer in that time - they were in those stats, all the COVID deaths. Furious about the defamatory Islamophobic nonsense that was circulated. By the way, I no longer work there so no skin in the game now. There are things I dislike very much about living here, treatment of animals is shocking and domestic workers are open to abuse because it’s easier to do so behind closed doors - there are laws to protect them however. What I don’t like is all the other crap people say that is rubbish. I’ll continue to call it out every time I hear it.

Ncncncncncncncncd · 17/01/2025 12:23

Letlooseonthedanse · 17/01/2025 12:09

Ah well then, so long as he’s male and white and British and king of the shit heap, who cares?

Like all of you give second thought about conditions for migrant workers in UK. It is only when it's East of Europe, but not too East, that everyone suddendly cares.

iamnotalemon · 17/01/2025 12:26

I've only visited Dubai but would love the opportunity to work there if it came up.

I loved it, extremely safe, very clean. I appreciate it has its problems, but where doesn't! Human trafficking also happens in the UK!

GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing · 17/01/2025 12:26

I think it’s reasonable to ask him to consider all the angles but then let him make his own decisions.