Tony Blair says we need a national conversation about MH as its costing too much

[B0xes]

Tony Blair said recently on Jimmy's Jobs of the Future Podcast (clip available on youtube) that we need to have a national conversation about mental health. Why are we spending so much on it. Why are people self diagnosing. He believes people are being encouraged to view everyday challenges we all face as mental health issues.

Is he being unreasonable? In one sense, I'm inclined to agree to an extent, in the other, I believe he led the charge for so many of the social changes that have made us less resilient and many of these issues are due to individualism which led to atomisation and loneliness and being encouraged to see the market as the entity that fulfills our needs rather than strong families and robust social networks.

YABU - Blair can do one.

YANBU - He might have a point

Why are people self diagnosing.

That one's easy - if you can get referred for a proper multidisciplinary NHS diagnosis at all it is likely to be a multi-year wait.

I do think he has a degree to a certain point, but I would say that view has only recently developed for me. I see posts on here frequently where I think people are confusing general ‘life stress’ with MH issues. For example I saw a post where someone had parked badly/illegally (can’t remember what) to quickly run into a shop. DC was kicking off, and a passer-by was chastising them for their parking. They mentioned the whole issue made their ‘MH worse’ particularly as the moment was causing them anxiety and they struggle with anxiety etc etc. I didn’t comment as I didn’t want the OP to think I was putting them down, but it really struck me that this person was not able to recognise short-term, temporary stress that was causing their anxiety symptoms to ‘get worse’. Whether you have MH issues or not, a lot of people would be feeling bad/stressed/uncomfortable in that situation!

Hardiness training is a real thing, and has proven to be effective. I think there should be more encouragement/signposting to this sort of treatment.

A lot has happened in the last 5 years alone to put people under stress that they won't be accustomed to, of course this can damage your mental health and have knock on effects.

I think we should be focusing on putting proper measures in place to help those struggling. I'd love to know where this money is actually being spent when in most instances GPs prescribe medication then leave you to your own devices.

As someone with. Long term mental health condition that has required treatment since childhood - I agree with him.

There is a huge over pathologising (is that a word ?) of mental health. We also don’t seem to be teaching or practicing resilience.

It is normal to feel depressed or anxious sometimes. It’s also normal to need to time heal after difficult events. We just aren’t used to this anymore in a world of instant gratification.

That said there are significant problems in the UKs mental health care - with next to no secondary services available and GPs who only have 10 minutes to speak to you - if you’re lucky - just try to throw antidepressants or other medicine at people instead to get rid of them so that they can see the next patient.

Waiting times for therapy are so long that people deteriorate while waiting and the problems become worse over time. A snowball effect.

We always seem to have plenty of money for wars, though - as Blair will know very well.

As Tony Benn (who was about as far as you can possibly get from Blair in the respectability and truly principled stakes) famously said, if we have money to kill people, we have money to help people.

At least there are now thousands of Iraqi children who will never have to grow up with mental health issues, thanks to Blair...

He has a point in some respects.
DS has ADHD and autism. He’s medicated for ADHD, and having seen the marked improvement, I think it’s essential that he has that medication.
Having said that, he’s being brought up knowing that ADHD and autism are not excuses to avoid everyday life, and he has to learn to cope as the world will not change for him.
Anxiety is massively overused. People worry, people get nervous, horrible things happen, that’s life. People do have to learn to help themselves somewhat. It’s doing nobody any favours ‘validating’ everything. Sometimes people need to be told they’re being ridiculous and need to get on with it, and I think that’s the point Tony Blair is making.

I think it's necessary to have a conversation about health and welfare in general. Obviously in a civilised society, supporting the most vulnerable is important. On the other hand, if that support becomes a financial black hole which leads to the collapse of our civilised society, it's clearly not viable. I think we need our politicians to be much more honest about the trade offs (which they won't be because it's a vote loser) and as a society decide what we want. Do we want the most basic safety net possible? Do we want to go back to something like what was available when the NHS was first established (ie treatment for a basic range of conditions)? What are the trade offs involved in cutting things? If we make mental health provision less comprehensive, what does that mean for our economy/other forms of welfare/crime/society more generally? How do you have a comprehensive healthcare system and welfare state on the one hand, but still encourage people to look after themselves, take responsibility, look after their families, not rely on the state to pick up the pieces all the time?

The government can't have it both ways. They want to intrude on and control almost every part of our lives, but then complain when people won't take responsibility for themselves.

How many elections did Blair win?

They aren’t suggesting you should be able to. The post points out the issue, which is that people assume the world should work in a way that doesn’t require resilience. Which I’m sure everyone would agree is nonsense.

Far too many people now describe themselves as Having Anxiety when what is really happening is they feel anxious about things that its normal to feel anxious about - starting a new job and having to chat with new people, having to do something you don't really like or enjoy, hearing bad news, things not always going the way you want them to. The everyday stresses and higha and lows of normal life.

I love how people present their opinions as facts.

Blair can do one until he gives all of us who were young then the real value of the amounts he forced us to spend on private rent back. It was he who created the rentier society and always he and his ilk who told all of us at the shitty end that we should smile about it. He created intergenerational inequality and the slide into broken Britain. He betrayed working class people and encouraged declining standards. Why oh why did he never join the Tories in the first place and why oh why does anyone still listen to the lying traitor - oh yes, because he used us to get seriously rich. Before his time, that would not have had the same respect in Britain - that’s
what the equality and democracy that he destroyed meant.

Some phobias can be every day challenges. If a person has a fear of flying I would say that doesn't affect their life as much as someone with a phobia of dogs for instance.

I think if something is affecting your life on a daily basis then you need to seek help to overcome it. Letting someone claim sickness benefit for agoraphobia is not going to help them in the longterm. I think it should be time limited.

Not all skills can be learned...

You do realise ND can change massively over the years and the wheels often fall off during the teenage years. You can dictate all you like however ND is ND and you can’t teach somebody out of it. Overwhelm does/ will happen. Many ND people ( often women) aren’t as lucky as your son often going undiagnosed and unmedicated for years. I have ND children and did all the not using it as an excise thing. The teenage years have been hell with really serious mental health issues.

Resilience helps you survive but it doesn't help you thrive.

He is both correct and a hypocrite! He is responsible for raising a generation who rely on the state for everything and have absolutely no resilience. However it is also true that far to many people use " mental health" as an excuse for not working and opting out of life in general!

But you can push yourself to do things that can seem hard at first. I have students who have adjustments to assessments- but those adjustments do not include not doing the work at all. Some students do not understand or accept this. Neither do some of their parents.

So we have some students who send the tutor their presentation on time and try their best to contribute a little as the tutor shares the presentation with the class - and they contribute more each time and work up to doing it themselves, building their confidence.

And we have some who don’t produce the presentation and/or don’t attend and make no progress on speaking/presenting in three years, and I have no idea how they are ever going to cope with an interview.

One parent at an open day told me that her DC was ‘anxious’ about doing X module. Once the DC spoke to me it was clear that she just did not like that aspect of the subject - but the mother interpreted that as anxiety. Where the hell has that come from?

Leaving criticism of that odious man aside (I presume somebody must have accidentally picked up the key for the knighthoods cupboard rather than the one for the prison cell)...

I think, in principle, it's a bit like illness from work, albeit far more extended.

Some people do get seriously ill and really shouldn't be in work, and cannot do anything to help it much.

Some people lie and exaggerate and just want an easy ride.

Others may have very justified reasons, but with the right help, resources and maybe some resilience, they can gain the confidence and reliability that will help them to get back to 'normal' (or at least normal for them), which is good for them and society in general.

And for both scenarios, people only know personally how they are actually affected - and will be liable to disbelief from others, fairly or not.

Unpopular opinion but I think Blair is spot on, people need to get a grip.

Being nervous, anxious, worried about things in life is normal and you need to learn how to manage your emotions with logic and crack on, or respond to it by doing something else.
They should scrap it entirely in my view.
Society is worryingly soft is depressing, really sad.

You've only got to open a thread on here and the second someone describes any sort of negative behaviour there are droves of people rushing to diagnose them with something to excuse their shitty behaviour.

I’d query the idea that he ‘raised a generation who rely on the state for everything’.

I was a child when Blair was in power and everyone I know works and gets inordinately little for their taxes.

Brilliant post! I also have ND dc and I have always raised them that the world will not fit around them! Both are very resilient and doing well in life, partly ( i believe) due to not being allowed to use their conditions as an excuse not to do things.

Doubling down on Thatchers neoliberal revolution

Choosing not to be mentally ill due to sheer 'strength of character', apparently.

I am someone who has 3 ND children and a ND (soon to be ex) husband.

2 of those children have been out of school for extended periods, due to terrible MH. One was frequently suicidal and constantly self harming.

1 of those children is managing in mainstream school.

STBEX was never diagnosed, but it became clear that he was as ND as the children. He was diagnosed with long covid and ME, and has struggled with his own MH as a result.

The all or nothing approach we have in this country is part of the problem.

It meant there was no help for my eldest 2 until it became impossible for them to manage. Then there was some help, but I had to fight tooth and nail for it.

My STBEX was managed out of his last job because he had so many period of sickness. He would have been better to be signed off completely for months, but he kept trying to go in because he didn't want to let anyone down. He hasn't worked since (2 years).

They are all on a variety of medication, including anti-depressants for a child and STBEX.

I have found this incredibly challenging, and have struggled with my own MH as a result. It is external factors, but I defy anyone to go through the horrors of wondering if your child will be alive in the morning, and for your MH to be unaffected.

The stresses and strains of managing all of this have destroyed our marriage.

There is no help for me unless I pay for it privately.

I've had to change roles, from a very successful full time position, to a self employed one working around the needs of my family.

I have tried very hard not to rely on benefits. My children get DLA, and it goes someway towards bridging the massive gap.

When we have to run 2 households, it's highly likely that I will need to claim additional benefits.

What do I do? I am not exactly living the life of Riley. I have tried my very hardest to support everyone and keep all the balls juggling. I have gone through 2 LA tribunals to fight for appropriate provision for my children, support that should have been offered, and it's cost me thousands.

I think I've been pretty resilient, but I am now on my knees.

What could have helped? Earlier intervention, support for part time work, support services to listen to me and come to the conclusion that I reached 2 years ago about the provision required for my children (so they didn't have to each miss 2 years of secondary school).

But all of that takes money.

I don't know whether potentially now having to use benefits to keep going is cheaper than putting the support in place.

But I would far rather be a functioning member of society, working full time and paying my taxes, than in this position.

We are very broken as a society. We are driven by social media and materialistic goals, instead of being a society that cares and supports for each other. I don't know how you fix that.