Tony Blair says we need a national conversation about MH as its costing too much

[B0xes]

Tony Blair said recently on Jimmy's Jobs of the Future Podcast (clip available on youtube) that we need to have a national conversation about mental health. Why are we spending so much on it. Why are people self diagnosing. He believes people are being encouraged to view everyday challenges we all face as mental health issues.

Is he being unreasonable? In one sense, I'm inclined to agree to an extent, in the other, I believe he led the charge for so many of the social changes that have made us less resilient and many of these issues are due to individualism which led to atomisation and loneliness and being encouraged to see the market as the entity that fulfills our needs rather than strong families and robust social networks.

YABU - Blair can do one.

YANBU - He might have a point

Having seen how mental health issues run in families and can be genetic. I think these issues have always been around people have just had a lack of support. Maybe for some putting a label on an issue helps them but each individual case will be different.

As a nation we are spending a huge amount of money on MH but the conversation we need to be having is on how that money is being spent and wether or not that is the best use for it.

The simple fact of the matter is that there is a significant proportion of people out of working, claiming UC for MH reasons who simply don’t want to go out and work. I grew up around these people, I know many of them and anyone who says they don’t exist is delusional.

This is diverting time, effort, money and resources away from people in genuine MH crisis, who cannot access the support they need.

The criteria needs to be more robust, resources need to be better planned and coordinated and the funding needs to be rediverted to supporting people in serious need.

I haven’t voted here as I’m agreeing with both opinions. Blair can do one and rather than looking at how much is spent look at what’s causing MH problems.

This is such an ignorant, privileged attitude.

Your ND children are doing well because their conditions are sufficiently mild. Not because your parenting was superior.

To use the word “excuse” is disgraceful. Do you really believe that autistic/ADHD people with more significant symptoms than your offspring are just not trying hard enough, or were coddled?

Perhaps better than your understanding of political history!!

When asked at dinner once what she considered her greatest achievement to be - she replied 'Tony Blair and New Labour' he considered his role to build on, rather than reverse what she had done https://economicsociology.org/2018/03/19/thatcherisms-greatest-achievement/

It’s funny how if I mention my sons adhd/asd/anxiety I get looked at like he is making it all up but if I mention he has a lifelong limiting untreatable health condition then I get lots of supportive comments.
Maybe if services were actually there to help people early rather that three year waiting lists people could be more resilient

I think there is a conversation to be had about mental health, but I am suspicious the solution would be more expensive in the short term, but cheaper in the long term and governments are short term.

What I have seen is the three men I know who had severe depression/anxiety and were off sick for about 8 months each, all recovered and got back to work. But they all had private health care in thier jobs.

All got medication and counselling and one had art therapy, one had a great gp who 'prescribed' a walking group and met about each 3 weeks to review. They also had supportive employers who had sick pay and did really careful phased returns which also meant they had something to return too.

The people I have seen less able to recover tend to have a lot of 'life overwhelm' on top. So housing issues, perhaps made redundant, or never had a job, so no job to get back into to aim for, no counselling, maybe medication but no tactics to go with it.

Where's this help and support?

On the one hand I agree with him. Too many ppl self diagnose or take the path of least resistance. Fact is school and jobs can be shit , but sometimes you just have to suck it up and think school doesn't last forever what is my strategy to get through it , or that job I hate has to be put up with for a few months until I find one that suits me better.

Otoh there are some who are facing terrible mh issues, with tragic consequences.

You don't "get paid PIP to not work".
If you're going to discuss benefits, at least get the facts right.

I think there are lots of factors affecting mental health, along with the fact people don't feel ashamed to say they have poor MH like they used to. Social media means people talk / communicate freely with a lot more people than they ever did before. Could be there was always a lot suffering but they felt unable to share that or didn't have anyone to talk to.

However I do get a bit annoyed with my dc saying they can't do x today because their MH is bad. What they usually mean is it feels hard or they are nervous about it. Though one does have a diagnosis, I do think it is important to be as resilient as you can and try not to let your fears shrink your world, if possible.

I completely disagree with him.

While we are spending millions on PIP + other benefits for people who are unable to work because of mental health issues, we are spending no where near enough money actual mental health help.

From my experience when my middle child had a self harm/mental health crisis in September 2023 if it wasn't for the fact her High school had a school councillor and a trusted teacher then she/us would have had no help. She was too old to be helped by the local agency who look after school age children as she was 16 and because she was 16 she couldn't be put on the wait list for CAHMS as she would age out before she could be seen. Oh and my GP surgery do not see children with mental health issues apparently.

Although she has no official diagnosis it seems that it is more then likely she is on ASD spectrum and could no longer mask/copy dur to stress of mocks and GCSE's. And luckily the 6th form have put in place help for her if she thinks she needs it.

And my oldest is just finishing a degree in psychology and would like to be a Educational Psychologist but there are only 430 training places which you can only apply (and Pay) after working in the field for a minimum of 2 years.

We need to invest in actually spend money on actually helping people with their mental health, so people can live a better life.

Because MH issues don't have physical symptoms, they can easily be used as a get of jail free card. It used to be 'I have a bad back', but with MRI scanning and so on now, it's a bit harder to get away with that now unless you genuinely have a back issue.

Some of the uptick in MH issues is increased recognition. Some is lack of resilience. As a PP said, resilience can be learned but unfortunately the way SM works, some of the attitudes towards behaviour in schools and some kinds of parenting either don't build or teach it, or are actively destructive of the building blocks of attitude and behaviour that develop it.

Agree with Blair. Being nervous is not anxiety, liking everything clean and organised is not OCD. If you feel down after a break up this is not depression. People who are diagnosing themselves with mental illness would be horrified to see people suffering from genuine psychiatric illness, there is nothing glamorous about it, it is miserable.

Forcing a child to "fit in" when they are ND leads to very very sad adults and finally raech a breaking point when they can no longer mask.

Totally disagree with this.

I posted this (below) on another thread about this on the mh board. I would like to add that I've noticed that those of us who have struggled with mental and/or physical health conditions often for years/decades generally do our best to work around/with our problems but the self diagnosed lot it's always the reason why they can't do something.

We've raised a generation that are never challenged even at school different opinions are hidden behind trigger warnings or couched as "problematic". We tell them that nothings there fault it's always someone or something else that's to blame (just look at the teacher threads).Basically we have raised a self absorbed entitled generation of narcissists who expect the world to bend to their will and this words are literal violence™️. When they inevitably face the real world it's a massive shock and they fall back on self IDing mental health "issues" because we haven't equipped them for life in the real world where you have to suck crappie things up

Will preface by saying lifelong MH conditions (OCD, Biploar- have been inpatient in MH facilities before anyone comes for me!)

I think a lot of us with MH problems (genuine) are getting fed up with it being used as an excuse not to do something they don’t want to .

a lot of young people are parked on benefits (PIP) with no intention of working.

a lot of parents are also creating this issue from a young age as it is very very lucrative to have a child on DLA benefit.

top rate of DLA for children is around £800 per month. If you claim universal credit, the ‘severely disabled’ element gives you an extra £500 per month. Not to mention, the chance to get a blue badge, free tickets to theme parks, gets you exempt from the benefits cap etc etc.

so imagine you have 3 children all on £800 per month plus £500 per month EXTRA on top of universal credit- it isn’t sustainable!
of course SOME children deserve DLA but recent figures show 1 in 10 children are now claiming it- I just don’t believe this is genuine. Flame me if you like but I don’t. 75% of people who claim her awarded, usually with very little or no evidence- just look at the threads on here.

now, if you get used to that kind of level of income, you’re not going to have your child turn 16/18 (dunno what age it is) and have nothing, so a lot of these children are shoved on to PIP (usually done by parents) and that’s where they’ll sit the rest of their lives? Come on, this just isn’t sustainable. Most people can do something, even part time or working from home.

children and teens need to not be on social media, on tiktok and diagnosing themselves. Parents need to support but also encourage working, supporting yourself, removing screens, looking after mental and physical health from a young age.

basically, this country is truly fucked if we’ve got 1 in 10 children and young people who might never work on TOP of the 3.3 million (yes, really!) adult PIP claimants.

and people anyone comes for me, PIP is billed as an ‘in work beenfit’ yet out of 3.3 million claimants, only 1/6 of PIP claimants do ANY kind of work.

thing is, to even start this conversation people such as the ones on here that are permanently offended absolutely scream and ball that you’re horrible, a bigot, a ‘right winger’. But the truth is, these benefits can’t last for ever so I hope they’re putting that same every in to having a future plan for themselves and their children that doesn’t involve a lifetime on sickness benefits.

The real problem is in mental health services, there are no psychiatric beds available for people who should be under section or who need to be inpatients which is leading to extreme harm and distress.

Absolutely, I think we’ve heard quite enough from him over the years.

A lot of the Talking Therapies services have programmes for those diagnosed with autism or ADHD, but you can't access these until you are diagnosed. Access to Work scheme, you need a diagnosis. There are two examples for you.

This. After being an inpatient On and off for many years with extreme OCD/ washing in bleach, not able to eat any food unless it was bleached clean etc, honestly people have no fucking clue. Funnily enough I’ve still managed to be able to contribute something to society

Indeed. But also, even in those milder cases, the building of resilience as a skill still most likely requires adjustments to be made where necessary, and the individual given the strategies and support to overcome the things they find most difficult. Some may well respond to "just get over it" (or else will mask and suppress until there are significant MH issues), but most need to be taught how to cope in the NT world. My dd fell apart last sports day, I couldn't get her through the school gate. What helped wasn't me telling her to get over it. It was empathy from me for her tummy ache, understanding from the school, and sufficient knowledge of her needs to enable her to sit it out with me until such time as she felt able to 'give it a go'. I can tell you now that forcing it on her would have been the very worst option. She is strong, brave and determined. She just needs more help than most in some situations.

For many people the money they receive in PIP probably costs the government less than providing the correct service in the first place. For example, using your PP to pay a private online specialist psychotherapist (e.g. specialises in neurodivergence)at a certain hourly rate is going to cost the government less than ensuring the NHS has sufficient specialist psychotherapists available across the country for all neurodivergent people to access without a waiting list. If PIP is used for its intended purpose it is basically outsourcing NHS services to the private sector and in some instances this can be cheaper than the NHS providing it itself.

Everyone and their uncle has a MH diagnosis, either self-diagnosed, or medically.

It becomes a paradox...

"If everyone is mentally ill, then there are no mental illnesses, as being mentally ill becomes the new 'normal'."