Tony Blair says we need a national conversation about MH as its costing too much

[B0xes]

Tony Blair said recently on Jimmy's Jobs of the Future Podcast (clip available on youtube) that we need to have a national conversation about mental health. Why are we spending so much on it. Why are people self diagnosing. He believes people are being encouraged to view everyday challenges we all face as mental health issues.

Is he being unreasonable? In one sense, I'm inclined to agree to an extent, in the other, I believe he led the charge for so many of the social changes that have made us less resilient and many of these issues are due to individualism which led to atomisation and loneliness and being encouraged to see the market as the entity that fulfills our needs rather than strong families and robust social networks.

YABU - Blair can do one.

YANBU - He might have a point

The idea that the need for MH services and the huge gap between the ‘demand’ and supply is down to the ‘worried well’ is laughable for anyone who has sought NHS MH services for ourselves and/or our DC. The barriers are high.

I definitely criticise him for foreign policy and higher education policy, but also Labour set up Surestart. Had this continued young people who are now reaching adulthood would be in a much better position today. Also the systematic destruction of the NHS by the following 14 years of Conservatives has left us far less resilient and the sick man of Europe.

Look how many here have long term health conditions compared with European counterparts.

I agree.

I’d say do one. I’d rather not hear from him

If the national conversation leads to prioritisation of resources to those suffering anxiety and burnout as a result of undiagnosed neurodivergence then I'm with him. It cannot be right that a brilliant, sparky, then 6yo dd hid in bed, naked and clawing at her hair, avoiding getting dressed and going to school for a whole half term. People, including young children, who are in desperate need of support, must be prioritised.

My dd's 'resilience' has only grown since we've developed a greater understanding of her needs and worked proactively with her to manage the things she finds most difficult. Did she need a diagnosis in order for us to support her? No. But if we'd had it sooner, it may have helped us understand that her behaviour wasn't naughtiness, but her communicating distress. For so long we laboured under the impression that it was our parenting that was at fault, and that what works for most kids must also work for ours. It nearly destroyed us, and her. We're engaged, proactive, knowledgeable parents who are very capable of advocating for her. But how many others are falling through the gaps?

he can do one. He’s coming from a place with secure foundations and failing to recognise that huge swathes of the population aren’t secure - he can plan for a future, take that away and I’m sure his mental health is unlikely to be as robust or resilient,

Define resilience.

The fact there are people that believe you can self diagnose and claim PIP or other disability benefits just proves that people believe what they want to believe.

Resilience requires basic human requirements. If your living conditions are crap; you can't afford to put decent food on the table; you dont have time, energy and the resources to do something you love (eg sport), and you have a crap family/ social life, no amount of chucking the word " resilience " around will help. We all need the basics in place to be ble to deal with the shit than inevitably crops up along the way.

I think it’s both right and wrong. I think society and the economy are deteriorating which is tipping susceptible people over the edge. There is no hope for ordinary people.

But also people are less resilient now and some are desperate to identify as victims in some way.

Mental health services are shit and under funded, and this affects the most genuinely ill people not just from a lack of services, but also because you need energy to learn and navigate the system. Meanwhile, irritating label-seekers are persistent and know how to game the system.

PS Tony Blair is a war criminal who contributed to killing 100,000 people in the illegal war in Iraq, so I don’t think he should feel entitled to moralise about anything.

To an extent he is correct - the same way that Hadley Freeman’s article about over diagnosis of ND types is a problem for society. In the other hand, there are people with debilitating mental health problems simply being ignored by the system - my family member is severely mentally ill, with ongoing challenges that pose a danger to himself and others and the literal response of the services who are supposed to safeguard him and others is ‘we aren’t really a functioning service due to funding. We can’t provide much more than a drop in space for him from time to time.’ So yes, there is over diagnosis but there is also not even a basic level of care for those who in times past would have been in an asylum.

@EmmaMaria thank you. I know that there are people who are too ill to help themselves, but my gut says they are a minority. I also have a physical disability and I know very well that I have a responsibility to myself and to society to do my best, within the limitations I have, to keep myself healthy and mobile. I can't let myself just throw up my hands and give up. I take the same approach to my MH issues.

He's completely right. So many people now don't seem to understand that there are ups and downs in life and yes, plenty of situations arise that may make us feel, nervous, worried, uncomfortable, and these is all normal, not a special medical condition. Far too many people now describe themselves as Having Anxiety when what is really happening is they feel anxious about things that its normal to feel anxious about - starting a new job and having to chat with new people, having to do something you don't really like or enjoy, hearing bad news, things not always going the way you want them to. The everyday stresses and higha and lows of normal life. We need to be teaching our children and youth not to expect life all to be fun and easy and within their comfort zone.

The vast majority of people with MH struggles ( including those with serious conditions) are getting nothing, zilch. So I’d love to know where these costs are coming from.

I agree with him.

People are being encouraged to diagnose themselves as having a condition when they might be a bit down, or have fairly normal quirks.

Truth is that for most people, life is hard and is often a bit shit and eventually you die, and a lot of the time you need to look on the bright side and plod on.

I have had a really shit decade and that's what I have concluded.

Anyone who thinks the world 'should' be set up to convenience them so they never need to suffer stress or discomfort will not thrive. Resilience is crucial.

Putting up with temporary physical and environmental discomfort, tolerating inconvenience, frustration, failure, disappointment, learning how to cope during periods of loneliness or poverty and how to take steps to climb out of them - these levels of resilience help people thrive.

Saying you have anxiety costs nothing. You won’t get any treatment or additional benefits.

No one was bothered to do anything about the daily bullying I faced and being raised by a bipolar parent. No one bothered to get help for my autism until my issues became so pronounced I couldn’t function. If they didn’t want it to cost they should’ve thought about doing something to prevent it getting to the stage it did

I suspect the fundamental assumption that we are somehow meant to be happy and comfortable is probably one cause.

I like being happy as much as the next person, but evolution does not appear to place much value on it - so maybe we're just not 'designed' for happiness and it's the relative low struggle of today's life that means we are now unhappy?

Maybe poor mental health does not mean anything is broken at all? Maybe that's humankind's default state?

And these aren’t what causes people to struggle with mental health.

Eh?

In the past, many lived in misery and then died early. We are trying not to do that.

They can slap my wrists too then. We now seem to live in a world where no-one is 'a bit fed up' or 'pissed off', everything gets put down as MH and the MN advice is usually to see your GP. Words like 'anxiety' seem to have been redefined, surely it's not unusual to feel anxiety about, say, a family or work problem.

I agree that we need to talk about it, however, those who have stated that 'we can't afford people to be mentally unwell', do you think we can afford to be physically unwell? Would you challenge someone with a physical disability in the same way? For those with severe mental illness, including myself, it is no less of a choice than someone with physical disabilities.

Finally, when we are starting to be more aware of mental illness and its impact, we are at risk of reversing it by pointing the finger at those who are ill and in need of support, rather than the system that has failed them. Anyone who has tried to access mental health support in the UK will know how diabolical it is. Are we going to challenge the system, and Tony Bliar and his friends, on how they are going to resolve the issues that has resulted in so many people becoming unwell and left untreated? Removing benefits/support from mentally ill people seems cruel and unfair when the alternatives for promoting recovery and wellness are non existant.

It’ll be getting NHS waiting lists down to four hours max. People are just too sissy to spend 40 hours on a plastic chair…