Tony Blair says we need a national conversation about MH as its costing too much

[B0xes]

Tony Blair said recently on Jimmy's Jobs of the Future Podcast (clip available on youtube) that we need to have a national conversation about mental health. Why are we spending so much on it. Why are people self diagnosing. He believes people are being encouraged to view everyday challenges we all face as mental health issues.

Is he being unreasonable? In one sense, I'm inclined to agree to an extent, in the other, I believe he led the charge for so many of the social changes that have made us less resilient and many of these issues are due to individualism which led to atomisation and loneliness and being encouraged to see the market as the entity that fulfills our needs rather than strong families and robust social networks.

YABU - Blair can do one.

YANBU - He might have a point

But then why do we see wildly different levels of anxiety and mood disorders between similarly industrialised countries, say France and Germany, where the former sits at 23% and 21% in the former and 14% and 10% in the latter?

This - exactly

we’ve created societies and ways of living that have changed exponentially way quicker than humans can adapt to this - the whole is greater than the parts I think applies

There is a saying we are like Stone Agers living in the fast lane

These are my feelings too - humans aren't supposed to live like this.

The system only really worked whilst there was heavy industry and manufacturing jobs which could cater to all abilities. The jobs that are around now are heavily people and communication focused (no good for ND people) and complex and bureaucratic or menial. These still require extrovert, mentally well NT people for the most part leaving those who are ND/mentally unwell scrabbling around for whatever they can manage. It's no use people telling ND to go for IT jobs all the time as not all of us are IT savvy or capable. We're not identikit humans, we're as varied as NTs. The number of workers who are suitable for current employment is diminishing if employers continue to prioritise only healthy extroverts. The human brain is so complex that it's easily affected and damaged by trauma. We're not insects or reptiles. Mammals, particularly higher ones, tread a fine line between being well and functional and being damaged beyond repair.

I think this country - and others - is in end stage capitalism to be honest and nothing more can be squeezed out of an ailing and dry, shrinking pool of workers. This is what they've created. It's no use us all fighting amongst ourselves and blaming each other. We're all victims of something which began 200 years ago and has largely run its course.

Mood disorders are different to the presence of universal emotions present in humans

To understand prevalence rates you would have to consider the contributing factors of which there are many in the context of that country. Including all the social and economic stressors, diagnostic procedures for detection

@ByMerryKoala

thats the thing with capitalism, as society was in the industrial age, we needed the people, but with the rise of machines doing roles that originally were all done with humans, at some point when society keeps swapping to machines then at some point there will only be a selective few humans needed to run the machines, manage society etc then what is left for the rest of humanity,

People complain and look down upon addicts of whatever type, but these are actually people who are clumsily trying to self medicate in their own way. Some people aren't capable of being productive in a modern workplace due to below average intelligence and inability to tolerate endless corporate training sessions. All these people would previously have been employable on one way or another and the addicts would have been able to avoid addiction because they'd have been employed and had something to live for. Do you know how dehumanising it is to be told you're a pointless waste of space?

Probably the only thing I agree with him on.

feeling a bit sad about something isn’t mental health issues - that’s where we are as a country currently.

I really appreciate your recognition of the indisputable value of those factors in your background and marriage. I didn't/don't have them and my life has been dysfunctional in certain ways as a result. That is rarely taken into account by many people, who'll think and sometimes say "We've all struggled" when actually it suits their agenda to completely overlook and minimise just how different (and significant) other people's adverse life experiences can be.

I can see this coming: the benefits system will be radically overhauled very soon, and politicians and private providers will talk up employment support, but only lip service will ever be paid to questions about employers (and the system in general) building in and fairly maintaining reasonable adjustments. Then lots of people will discover they can't cope with certain demands of jobs and the workplace and lose employment, without anything but a very time-limited claim on the benefits that they shan't be able to survive without.

And that’s not to minimise those with actual mental health issues of course, but we’ve normalised trivial ‘that’s life’ things as being ‘mental health’

Agree that so many jobs are aimed at extrovert NT people and even jobs that are not only the extroverts will succeed at interview even though they may not turn out to be the best at the job.
In the past it has been easier for men to walk into manufacturing jobs and they are having to cope with the change and the thought of unemployment may turn their frustration to the right wing keyboard warriors or in on themselves to mental health, issues drugs and suicide.

Assuming you've understood my post, I can't decide if you're being disingenuous or facetious. Or both. But I'm sure you and Tony would get on famously over a champagne lunch.

Looking around at the increasingly locked-in (and policed) inequalities in British society, I wonder who the crazies really are.

I'm interested in unpicking this a bit - as I've mentioned upthread I have "mild" OCD tendencies. Their origin is based in actual risk. If I don't lock my doors I could be burgled. If I don't minimise the risk of fire myself, one could still happen but it wouldn't be "my fault" - likewise if I'm burgled because someone breaks in physically I know I did all I could to minimise the risk. Neither thing have happened but that is likely due to making sure, obsessively, that I have minimised the risks. My problem is the fear I feel that it still might happen and I'll have losses to deal with, and lack of trust and confidence in both myself and the wider world due to catastrophic losses in a short period of time.

I can tell myself over and over it's irrational, but my visceral physical reactions remain.

I have an underlying belief that I am or should be being punished, and this is the third cycle I've been through with a similar theme - normal life events and situations that I was happy with being destroyed in relatively left field fashion. I've rebuilt twice. This time I'm scared to. I feel I'm "not allowed nice things" and some people's behaviour and reactions make me feel a bit "typhoid Mary". My innate sense of personal responsibility and accountability means I do look at my role in it all and blame myself.

So I didn't give my DP or my Mum cancer, but did I do enough for them (different processes in each case but the feeling is the same). I did everything I could to keep my business going while grieving my DP - I didn't cause the economic changes that contributed to its failure, but I should have done more. I didn't get myself evicted, my landlord chose to sell. I supported and advocated for my SM when her mental health went off a cliff at the beginning of last year - now my 85 year old Dad is in temporary accommodation because they couldn't stay together and be safe. Divorce of my elderly parents was not on my batshit bingo card.

I'm well aware negative emotions are part and parcel of life but the sheer overwhelming nature of cumulative anger grief, frustration and dread is exhausting.

There is a whole industry around "toxic positivity". We ARE told that negative emotions are wrong to a degree. We are actively encouraged not to burden friends or family in times of trouble and to seek medication and therapy, both from a medical and a capitalist perspective.

As a PP mentioned the modern world is vastly different to the world I grew up in and multiple factors are at play.

Today is my birthday. I hate my birthday. Three years ago on my birthday I received the news that DP had had a second devastating brain bleed and wasn't coming back after ten days in isolation in hospital after the first. He tested positive for Covid on admission so no visiting allowed for 14 days. I missed seeing him in the brief period of lucidity he had in-between bleeds, and had to beg, plead and cry to be allowed to visit after that news. He lingered for another ten days.

So it's just a day, I tell myself. I distract myself by cleaning, ready for a visit from an old dear friend who squired my Mum around in her latter years. I feel like a fizzing time bomb, one of those cartoon bundles of TNT. I shall keep calm and carry on. I'll cry later.

I'm not sharing this to gain sympathy - that makes me itch. I'm explaining why I can understand that people have difficulty dealing with repeated knock backs and trauma and that re-wiring the brain takes time and effort and support none of which is easy to come by in this fast paced "be positive, don't be a burden, move on" world.

My experience is no worse than many others and some will react differently depending on circumstance. I try to pull myself together with varying degrees of success every day. So do many others. So, I will stand in solidarity with anyone struggling. We're all human beings, not robots, no matter how much the world demands we emulate them.

No, I'm not a teacher and I'd have said it was obvious what I'm talking about: Government agencies causing mental health issues. Fix them, and you'll see a decrease in cases.
After all, who is it that pressures schools etc. over rules and regulations that then impacts and causes stress to parents and children?

I agree with this but I also think the cost of living has forced families into very unhealthy work patterns. Two parents working full-time means that fewer people have the energy to be active in 'the village'. I also observe that many retired people do much less community work than in previous generations. So much informal community support is gone now at the same time that state funding is at an all time low.

Some individuals prefer not to engage in their 'village'. They have their own personal community, friends, and family unit.
Tony Blair is encouraging a discussion about mental health and social care in general. We cannot provide unlimited mental health or social care services for every citizen in the country. If wealthy individuals suddenly decide to donate their money, that might change things; however, that is unlikely to happen.

Too many people don't think about the wider impact of upbringing, education and family dynamics @baroqueandblue - I know I've been very fortunate with my family and my husband - lots of people just don't have that kind of support and it's not really any wonder that they struggle more than those who do.

I fully acknowledge that I couldn't do what I do work-wise without my husband and my family to support me with that. But I also feel a bit like a failure for being in my thirties and still having to rely on other people because every single time I've tried full-time work, it's resulted in a mental breakdown and what I now know to be autistic burnout. It absolutely sucks.

Problem is, Tony's "national conversation" (friendly chat) about MH will be a dominant, powerfully-resourced group telling a vulnerable, much less economically-and socially-resourced group to suck it up, buck their ideas up and get over it.

And that former group has all the muscle.

Usually I'd create a roll-over thread at this point but this one needs to die.

Yes, people with power and money telling those with none to stop complaining & get back to working for your overlords.
Blair is speaking on behalf of others like him. The rich get rich on the backs of the poor, the poor must be kept hard at it so that the wealthy can be kept in the manner to which they are accustomed.

I'll just plonk this here, and all of you who think you'll never be affected because you can't possibly become disabled need a wake up call;

www.disabilityrightsuk.org/news/disabled-people-far-more-likely-die-suicide-non-disabled-people

Who actually cares about..

What Tony Blair ..

Says!

I hope this is the end of this horrible thread.