Tony Blair says we need a national conversation about MH as its costing too much

[B0xes]

Tony Blair said recently on Jimmy's Jobs of the Future Podcast (clip available on youtube) that we need to have a national conversation about mental health. Why are we spending so much on it. Why are people self diagnosing. He believes people are being encouraged to view everyday challenges we all face as mental health issues.

Is he being unreasonable? In one sense, I'm inclined to agree to an extent, in the other, I believe he led the charge for so many of the social changes that have made us less resilient and many of these issues are due to individualism which led to atomisation and loneliness and being encouraged to see the market as the entity that fulfills our needs rather than strong families and robust social networks.

YABU - Blair can do one.

YANBU - He might have a point

Off of the top of my head - they could employ people on a zero hours commitment with tax breaks to both the employer and contractor to take the risk in people with no work history/poor work history/patchy educational record you name
It.

The govt could make it so that you didn't lose benefits as easily if you went over earnings thresholds (carers, UC, income support etc) - reforming the bottom end of the market so the benefits penalties for people trying their hand in work weren't as sudden or scary.

They could also build a website that made it easy to find supported schemes in your area...

Better ideas are available than mocking the idea that people face real struggles on mh and work.

Yes this person was not an agency supplied carer. In this case the carers I come relied on that individual being stuck in cycles of OCD - in therapy they’d have to take a step back for the person to recover and lose their income.

Completely agree with you.

But as I’ve seen from numerous MN threads, a lot of people seem to have very rigid thinking about what Work Should Be Like and do not like the idea of people having adjustments.

I’d like to hope most of them aren’t in any kind of position of authority, but realistically there will be some.

There does need to be an attitude change from those types of rigid thinkers if we are going to have the inclusive workplaces necessary.

which is understandable but then we need caring managers and companies

because its then if they can do x then can we etc

Yes I agree

Housing
Socio economic inequalities

this impact health and MH….people are desperate. But there are some who are sort of ‘grabby’ they have no diagnosis but report extreme things as they’ve fallen out with their family and no one is helping…..and last time this happened they took an overdose so I need help….families that unequipped to resolve issues or access appropriate support

• healthcare professionals can’t just go and ‘sort out’ the family or the school who won’t assess their child or the drug dealer neighbours or overcrowding- these are all awful and distressing things for people but they are not MH disorders that are treatable with therapy - they often require practical solutions which is where the wider system is lacking and I think is what TB was referring to and commonly referred to as ‘not pathologising’ difficult circumstances that give rise to distress. It’s not always helpful to try and ‘treat’ people in these circumstances.

Sometimes people just need minor changes like working patterns, a quiet corner, walk breaks, access to appointments, only attend essential meetings, phased returns that are properly managed, being able to wear headphones, matching capacity appropriately ie would it hurt to let some do quieter shifts, be respectful of different communication styles, reasonable demands, and sadly refrain from cruel bullying. Take time to understand the person as an individual and get the most out of them mutually beneficial.

Absolutely - I know from personal experience it rarely happens though. Lots of places talk the talk and claim to offer all kinds of support but the reality is that many either can't afford to put additional support in place or aren't interested in doing so because it requires too much effort and change - or because they don't want it to lead to resentment with other members of staff.

Too many people want disabled or mentally unwell people to just put up and shut up. They don't want to have to change their way of thinking or doing things in order to provide any support either, they just want to carry on as they are regardless of how much it means others might struggle.

What really depresses me is that so many people who claim to have direct experience of mental illness don't seem to be able to muster a single drop of sympathy for those who may be finding things harder than they did.

If those posters were making similar comments about physical disability they would be slaughtered for it, but apparently mental illness and hidden disabilities are fair game and anyone who isn't able to pick themselves up and keep going must be a piss taker who just can't be arsed.

Of course it won't work in all cases but i think you underestimate human resilience if you believe that vast majority of people aren't capable of living functional lives. I would never claim they are completely 'normal' lives as I think this is a complete fallacy and part of the problem. There is a growing belief that 'normal' people don't struggle with things and they find it easy to cope. This leads to people pathologising themselves and feeling inadequate when in fact they are struggling like virtually everybody else in this world. It is an inherent part of the human condition and something we are evolved to live with. We aren't all meant to be thriving and sometimes surviving is enough.

Sadly yes

I have one long term health issue that affects me, I’m never seriously ill from it, it’s invisible, but it affects me. I also have another border/milder issue that doesn’t help again invisible. I’ve actually stepped away from a friendship group because of a lack of understanding.

thing is with MH it varies so much OCD can present very differently across inviduals and treatment plans may vary as well as approach which is when you may get a mismatch of understanding also.

Totally agree re. everyone presenting differently @Shakeyourbaublesandsmile - it makes it so much harder to get support as people will say "well, X worked got my third cousin Bob and he had that" - it's well-intentioned but ultimately very unhelpful.

Some people with mental illnesses or hidden conditions can contribute perfectly well to society with basic support, which is fantastic, but unfortunately there are many others who need more intense treatment and adjustments, and more still who will never be able to work even with a shit load of support behind them.

I'm somewhere in the middle - I work and always have done, and have never received a penny of government support. - but that's only because I'm fortunate enough to have a husband who can help support me, as well as parents who were both willing and able to fight for me when I was younger.

If I'd been raised in a family without that support and wasn't fortunate enough to marry someone understanding, I would be in a very, very different position.

Hmm how about people believe COVID had an impact - if you tell yourself something enough times you will internalize and believe it - which is essentially how CBT works. Perhaps we should stop telling ourselves that external factors are to blame and then maybe people would be happier if they had more resilience? Just a thought as this argument if for a glass half full.

Whilst I agree with the sentiment, the reality is most employers have a choice of someone who doesn't need those things, so will pick them. They need an incentive to gamble on the person who has lots of extra requirements however minor (or a deterrent for avoiding them). I believe they should for a better society, but I also am realistic on the reality of job seeking.

Maybe we need awards for companies that do this well, or some kind of 'evidence' that companies with diverse employees make more profit so it's worth it.

I agree with the original OP - I think that society has gone too far in blaming sadness, worry, individuality and human nature on mental health and neurodiversity. If you tell yourself you have a problem you will create one even where it doesn't exist or exacerbate one that does exist, it's the power of the mind. A little more positivity, glass half full attitude and resilience would go a long way to resolving this epidemic.

Of course it won't work in all cases but i think you underestimate human resilience if you believe that vast majority of people aren't capable of living functional lives.

That word again, resilience! I am not aware that I stated what the rest of the above reads. Never mind, it is not that important. I shall take my leave of this thread, I am just glad, that at the moment, my mental health is sound. I really hope it stays that way, as I would hate to have to try to get help for it, in this climate.

This is critical- to have support makes a world of difference. It then throws the debate open more to how we live as people in our families and communities.

Easy to pick on mental health, as it's usually an invisible disability. It would be much harder for politicians to say we're reducing benefits for those with physical health disabilities.

If my family member has their sickness benefits removed they won't suddenly become well enough to work, family will have to support them. The scary thing is I think this is what will happen. No support just sanctions, which will worsen their mental state.

I too would like to know what changes Blair made to society that were so detrimental, I'm far more inclined to blame Mrs Thatcher for societal upheavals that have had negative effects. I'm quite old so can remember both eras quite well.

Whilst I agree with the sentiment, the reality is most employers have a choice of someone who doesn't need those things, so will pick them.

This is the reality - I mean, look at the other thread running at the moment about people not declaring their health issues as they know it will lead to discrimination.

And as sad as it is, I get it. I don't agree with it, but I get it. So I think if the government wants to get more people back into paid employment, they need to invest in schemes that allow employers to take on people with disabilities while supporting them with any financial impact that may have.

Yeah and I wonder if this plays out more in certain sectors or types of job roles. if you have specialists skills and knowledge you are more likely to be accommodated which may unfortunately put pressure on people who required adjustments not to be just as good but better in order to compete for that role…

I think a lot of people struggle on in silence and that stigma exists

people were treated terribly during Covid by some employers who were high risk and those with long covid absolutely marginalised and unsupported

I wrote about this on another thread recently. I'm audhd and worked for a disability charity and even they couldn't be bothered in making a reasonable adjustment for me (it was a physical problem as it happened, and required a very minor adjustment). Worse still, is that they confidently informed me they'd made the adjustment, when it was plain to see they hadn't. It was pure gaslighting and I became really upset over it (as well as being in pain) and had to leave.

A leading disability charity ffs.There is no hope.

Atrocious- I’m sorry you experienced that

It beggars belief sometimes why people are doing certain jobs

Doesn't help that we have a bunch of idiots in the upper echelons of NHS management who don't have a clue about running a health service.
Some will just pass down orders to discharge patients who are not fit or safe to go how they got there heaven knows - probably by bullying others (I know of a few like that) or perhaps by lottery as so incompetent but gobby enough to come over well at interview.
Vastly overpaid for what they do compared to a mental health nurse.

What a truly ignorant post.

I truly believe that human beings aren't supposed to live the way we're living now. Modern industrial society is hugely stressful to exist in - in spite of the sanitation, modern medicine and gadgets we all enjoy - and the capitalist machine chews people up and spits them out. Unlike farm animals, we can't slaughter those who are deemed non productive.

The government expects people to merely exist as productive units of tax and is frustrated when some of us malfunction. We're humans, not automata. The system is poorly designed and now it's imploding on them.

I disagree

if someone believes by doing things in a certain order that their family won’t have a car crash and then they don’t that’s confirmation so they believe they have to do that a lot to keep people safe - they problem is in their head and they become aware others don’t do this and label it as not normal but don’t k ow how to stop and believe the have a problem which they do….. unintentionally have created a dysfunctional set of beliefs about how they keep their family safe - this may be just one thing of many they do to support this belief and can often be a reaction to difficult events sometimes quite traumatic.

But some people believe the presence of a negative emotion means there is something wrong - it’s not they are normal reactions to events. Some people want to feel calm all the time or happy all the time - it’s unrealistic as life is not like that. Negative emotions have a role to play also. They are universal to our species and transcend all other variables as to how and where we live.