Old guy purposely tapped my bum with his walking crutch

[Wickedclimber]

Had a 'disagreement' with an elderly man today, who was utterly vile and told me that women should be in the kitchen.

Afterwards he came over and tapped my arse with his walking crutch, whilst mumbling "got over it yet?".

AIBU in thinking this is totally inappropriate?

I know if I had seen him do it to someone else, I would have stepped in as a safeguarding officer.

If he can’t be trusted to use his stick correctly in church then he can’t come in with it.

In order to give more context. The OP has explained the context since I posted, and therefore we are all able to understand more about what led the man to behave in this way.
HTH

Sorry you've had to put up with this, OP. My church is run and led almost entirely by women and it's terrific. So he wouldn't be able to say that round here because there wouldn't be a church!
He sounds like someone who is very frustrated at change, and a pita. But you should be getting support, and not losing sleep over this.

I realise that now lol!

His views on women leading services are about 20 years out of date and are the bigger problem.

Did he "tap" you with the end of his cane so it was like he was lifting it to poke you or was it like a full strike across your backside? One is definitely worse.

I'm glad he's going to be spoken to but it's a problem churches run into. You can't "bar" anyone. But you can end up with very conflicting views and need to manage keeping both parties "safe". In this instance I would suggest someone is assigned as his "minder" as it were. Preferably another male because of his views. Someone who can, discreetly, sit near him and "watch him" as it were, step in and guide him elsewhere if he gets into heated debates etc

I'm sorry this horrible incident happened @Wickedclimber , how very unpleasant for you.

Sounds like you did the absolute right thing by commenting loudly at the time and immediately telling the vicar.

Well done for this, because it's hard to think clearly when you're shocked/embarrassed/hurt.

Brushing it under the carpet wouldn't help anyone - it would make life harder for the women who follow you, and also for the old man himself. He's risking a violent response every time he assaults people like that.

I hope your church rally round you.

There's no place for victim-blaming here and I'm sorry you've also had to face that.

Gross. Sorry that you seem to have your hands tied by having to entertain this misogynistic bullshit.

In no other organisation would you have to tolerate a man saying "you shouldn't be allowed to do that because you're female". It's absurd and it belongs in the 15th century.

Can you just shrug and do a 'sadly we're here to stay so if you don't like it you're welcome to find an alternative church'. I honestly don't think these people should even be engaged with.

Once again, thank you those who have been supportive. I'm having a tough time.

Oh,ffs. His age is irrelevant. He was a dick. And would have been a dick whether he was 20 or 80. Not sure whether it's a safeguarding issue or a arsehole issue.

'tough time' as in to do with this incident? Please tell me you're not getting push back from the vicar/other parishioners etc?

So you'd have felt differently if the disagreement had been about something different/? What sort of things could the disagreement have been about that would make him poking her bum with his walking stick acceptable?

The follow up Posts at least make it clear why you didn't grab the stick straight off him because that sounds like a tempting option.

I'm sorry.... In which era was it seen as socially acceptable to "just tap" anyone, in any place on their body with a crutch???

Elderly or dementia or whatever, those things are a red herring. his rights and needs don't trump the OPs. Church should be a safe place for everyone, I'm sure most will agree. Someone having a quiet word with this man won't harm him.

We've had similar (and worse) incidents at our church.

"Dementia" is always pleaded and the dirty old men always seem to get people on their side and the victims are treated as the bad ones.

This is disgusting, OP, he did it deliberately to demean you.

I don't know if people can be kicked out of churches, but if they can, he should be!

He should be banned from the church. I really hope the vicar has your back with this. You’re not overreacting I would be really upset too.

Without a restraining order, in my Church they can't. And our Pastor would always ignore the restraining order as "All Are Welcome".

So that leaves the option of calling the police mid-service and the parishioners would definitely blame the victim.

I'm very disillusioned by our local churches. Safeguarding isn't taken that seriously and most of the older generation seem to think a bit of bottom pinching, crude comments, inappropriate affection is par for the course and women who don't like it are trouble makers. It's vile.

Please do explain to us why she should’ve “handled it with grace”? And what about her response wasn’t done with the greatest of restraint and grace?

Even Jesus got angry and turned tables. As a Christian and a feminist I’m enraged for the op. I hope the church fully supports her. My 90 year old father was a gentlemen - he has some old fashioned ideas but would not have done that in a million years. His age and worldview don’t excuse him.

And just fyi. When men exert power over women, it’s not appropriate to simper and politely ‘handle things with Grace’. That’s the behaviour of a collaborator and an appeaser of misogyny.

I'm so sorry to read that your church is rife with this stuff.

In the church of England, the vicar does have the right to ban someone and churchwardens have the power to ask someone to leave. If refused, police are called.

In this instance, the man will be emailed and told that he is not welcome to express this views, no touch someone without consent and he will be thrown out if it is repeated.

Well, that's some measure of redress for you and the old tosspint put in his box for a while. The bloody arrogance of him!

I'm sorry to hear that. I remember as a young teenager my parents had a pervy friend who had suffered a serious brain injury, and it was brushed off as " he can't help it, his inhibitions are gone. " He never did anything to me as such but I was very uncomfortable around him as he would often say things that were a bit icky. I think I felt at the time that I was overreacting a bit because I had been abused in the past, and had a lot of anger and fear around that.

Then one day he told a 21 year old college student visiting that he wanted to give her a blowjob. He was told to stop. It didn't kill him. He was still a bit "icky" but as far as I recall, he no longer said something quite as disgusting in church ever again.

He was still made welcome, but it was made clear that his behaviour was unacceptable.

An elderly bloke once poked me in the back in a supermarket to get me to move. No 'excuse me please,' no 'Can I get by, love' just a jab in the back with a walking stick. I grabbed it and told him next time it touched me it was going up his arse.

My kids were like 'mum he's OLD!' But I think that's all the more time to have learned some fucking manners. I was so pissed off.

I've been thinking a lot recently about the time an old man in cafe who clearly was mentally disabled came over to me and kissed me. It was absolutely disgusting but I didn't kick up any fuss because he was not all there. Ten years on or so and I have been thinking actually, he knew what he was doing, he managed to choose the young woman in her twenties out of all the other people there to press himself on. It was fucking gross and he was using his mental disability to assault people without question.

Enough with this shit. I would have shouted at the old cunt at your church.

Exactly, even a toddler understands words like no and stop. Cognitive disabilities aren't any kind of excuse.