Old guy purposely tapped my bum with his walking crutch

[Wickedclimber]

Had a 'disagreement' with an elderly man today, who was utterly vile and told me that women should be in the kitchen.

Afterwards he came over and tapped my arse with his walking crutch, whilst mumbling "got over it yet?".

AIBU in thinking this is totally inappropriate?

I know if I had seen him do it to someone else, I would have stepped in as a safeguarding officer.

Sorry I misunderstood the role of a safeguarding officer. I didn’t know it was to report issues to the church leader much the same as any congregant can.

All issues need to be reported to the incumbent.

What does his age have to do with anything?

Women have been ordained for over 30 years, haven't they? Most people who objected defected to the Catholic Church back then, although I'm sure they'd still welcome him despite being rather late to the party.

Yanbu and I'm shocked by the number of people who think you are. I thought we were moving past women having to tolerate this kind of shit. I wonder if they'd all be saying it was nothing if he tapped your arse with his hand instead? In my mind both are equally as bad.

That was assault… doesn’t matter that he’s an old man. If it was also fuelled by misogyny/your sex then it was also a hate crime. I’d report it so that someone can have a gentle word in his ear before the next woman he assaults returns fire, or her husband does.

I've worked in a church environment a lot and this is fairly normal behaviour. Old men have old ideas. I've also tried talking to them but they won't change and they just take umbrage at escalation. Well done for challenging it although nothing ever changes.

Was he joking or does he really hold those views? If so, can't your priest advise him of a local angle-catholic church which maintains the no-women-leaders position? They are still kicking around.

I think its the comment' got over it yet 'that would irk me more so he was wanting to upset you and goad you into a reaction - as a bully does . He is probably lonely and bored . You must pursue this and he must be told that he needs to leave the group if he can't accept women leading services. Women have been leading services for decades now so he can't use age as an excuse .

Sure if she hadn't mentioned it you'd be asking if he's disabled and should therefore be cut some slack?

Why didn't you ask what his sex has to do with it? Surely irrelevant as women can and do have this attitude also.

Or is it ageist now to point out a singular person's age to set the scene for something you want advice or support on?

Sorry, but I am myself a born again Christian . I am also a survivor of CPTSD from abuse, sexual and other kinds. Depending on how well I'm coping if someone touched me when I wasn't expecting it or didn't want it , my fight reflex might well end up in me punching the dude.

also the bible says when a brother sins, to go to him and let him know. It's loving to call someone out on their mistakes.

Oh wow, horrible behaviour. Could he have dementia though?

Now I know this is a Bot post

How old does one have to be to be allowed to behave in an appalling and illegal manner? 60, 70, 80? Does it differ for the sexes?

Glad to say that in most churches, this behaviour would indeed be viewed as unacceptable, his views massively outdated and his age fairly irrelevant. You really are quite a victim blamer, aren't you?

While I can understand (if not sympathise with) some elderly members of a congregation finding it hard to get their head around women actually having a voice in modern churches and taking leadership roles, these changes have been happening for a LONG TIME, thegreatestoftheseislove ! Whether you yourself like or approve of them, for most churches, sexual equality and women taking leadership roles/headship has been happening for decades. It's not a sudden change in the last few years that this poor old man is struggling to get his head around. Chances are, when women first started to be ordained (and before that, be deacons and take ministry roles in other churches) this man was middle-aged at best. He has had time to adapt! His bigotry is his problem and I'm sure his church ministry are mindful of his 'struggle' and probably treat him with a lot more compassion than he deserves.

And yet you still think it's ok to look at this incident from a different perspective (his) and take his side? Sod off.

If it had been me it would be the last time he saw that particular walking crutch, fucking arsehole.

You appear to be a little hard of thinking, or perhaps wilfully dim? She can't really take an active role AS Safeguarding Officer in her OWN CASE, now can she?! All churches I'm aware of now have safeguarding teams and officers etc and it's really important that this framework can function separate to the actual church leadership (in case it's the main minister who is actually at fault). She, as the Safeguarding Officer, has to hand this over to someone else (the minister, but I'm sure it could be someone else) because she has an interest in her own case and therefore can't work with it.

I assume any other congregant would be taking a similar issue to the OP first, as she's Safeguarding Officer.

Really? How so?

Think unless you are actively involved in a church the word ‘incumbent’ may seem a bit unusual.

I do think this needs reporting to your minister/head cleric and a conversation had. The elderly gentleman needs to understand that not only will his behaviour/attitudes not be tolerated (ie he may be asked to leave the congregation) but that he actually puts himself at risk should he offend the wrong person.

ETA - I’d also, personally, request that he apologise to you. This is as much about ensuring other women clerics/officiants that follow you also have that protection and security in their ministry.

For the love of God can Mumsnet ban the word ‘bot’.

why, because someone used a big word?

@Thegreatestoftheseislove I sincerely hope you wouldn't hold the same attitude if it was a child or teenager being treated in a similar matter at church. Or maybe you're really Justin Welby.

I wish PP's would stop referring to this man as a 'gentleman'. He most certainly is not.

Horrible misogynistic behaviour, atypical of a man who believes women should be subserviant and hasn't adapted to changing times.

And it IS assault. And should be reported. Let us know how you get on OP; I'm sorry you've had to deal with this, what a horrible, shocking thing to happen. I just hope your church doesn't brush it under the carpet because 'he's old'...'got dementia'...'some old lame excuse'...

Of course it’s assault.

No, I think you just didn't get the joke.

Thankfully I've not come across this since I have been in ministry, though I am a newbie, tbf.