To feel so fed up that the only way to get a good education seems to be privately?

[Greensha]

I’m uk based. I live in a reasonably nice area but the schools are rubbish. We’ve looked further afield and they’re all pretty similar. I don’t know if my expectations are off but the classes are huge, like 30 kids in one room (I thought 25 was the max!). The buildings scruffy. One had a lovely lunch room and nice outside space but the rest of the school was falling down. There’s absolutely no way we can afford private and the one local to us is worlds apart to these state schools. I am trying to remind myself that a lot of that is superficial, the teaching is the same in both sectors as the teachers are the same and I know my dc will leave school with a proper and ‘real’ understanding of life. I can’t help but feel my kids are at a disadvantage overall though and it upsets me. Why should some kids get small classes, loads of sport opportunities and nice clean and tidy environments when others don’t. Doesn’t seem right or fair.

It is all Schrödinger's Schools again.

Independent Schools are simultaneously rubbish, and people who go there do no better in life...and at the same time, they are unfair and limit social mobility.

So which one is it?

Exactly. If they’re both paying half their salary toward fees then they’re mugs.

It’s buying privilege that’s all. I don’t think they’re better because they are so limited in experience but lots of fee payers want exactly that - identikit kids churned out who look, think the same, from the same families with money, same accents, handheld through exams, and obstacles moved out of the way, limited competition for everything - smaller pool for picking sports teams, teams that only play other private schools, easier to get the lead in the play etc etc

Still waiting for your explanation of the basis of your 'more millionaires in state schools' soundbite. The silence is deafening 😂

This and the child's work ethic.

DS1 didn't pass his 11+ but developed an excellent work ethic at his (ok) comprehensive school.
He excelled at exams, went onto get a Masters at a RG uni.

It can be about how much a child is willing to put in.

No just been working. Very happy to explain (I already have in a previous post but it obviously wasnt written in simple enough language for you) but you won't accept it anyway so what's the point?!

You still haven’t responded to my point that less than half of top 1% income households use private education. Plenty of room to quibble about what it means to be a millionaire, but categorically there are as many (if not more depending on what cutoff you use) high earning households in state than private education

@Kittiwakeup

source: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/09645292.2021.1874878#d1e1215

Whether your child does well at school is often not about the school at all but about the child parents. If you have engaged parents who get involved in the childs education, do the reading, add the extra curriculars, help with homework and engage with the school - your child is likely to be fine and do well. If you expect to send your child to school and the school do all the work then it's a lottery. Private schools lead kids through and you're paying for that extra care and attention. I can say this as a parent who's at the end of the school journey supporting her DCs through state school and working for a private school.

This wasn't what I asked. I asked Twisty (not you) to explain her analysis. She hasn't.

The silence is deafening 😂😂

Yes you are right. It absolutely is...from her.

So what is the real point up for debate? @twistyizzy claims that there are lots of rich people in state, which for some reason is a point of contention. I’ve provided published data supporting the broader point if not answering the precise question posed. Arguably looking at income is better than simply looking at net worth for the reason pointed out that a house in London can make one a paper millionaire. The income stats include both employment as well as other sources of investment income, btw.

are you interested in the substance or are you just interested in point scoring based on semantics?

Or their child has SEN not met in state. You keep saying you could use private but never ever would. What if no matter where you moved to, there was no state secondary school with quiet, small classes, lots of calm places and huge bandwidth for pastoral care. Would you honestly keep your sending your kid into an environment that damaged them just so you could have your principles?

How do you know what private school parents want? How ridiculous. There was far more homogeny at the leafy comp in a v wealthy area I taught at than the shabby private I teach at now. We have kids from farming backgrounds, typical MC ones, lots of overseas boarders who share their very diverse language and customs freely, we have clubs for half a dozen kids to play out their niche hobby games because they don't fit the rugby / hockey mold. The parents send their kids to us often because they AREN'T typical and don't fit in at state and have been bullied. Please stop pretending you know anything at all about private school users. You clearly don't.

Until I was about 11 I thought that state schools were for those whose parents were too mean or too poor to afford other schooling.

I am interested in the poster evidencing her frequent statements on different threads that 'there are more millionaires DC in state schools than in private'. It is the opposite of what I experience in real life. Many of the affluent people I know have their DC in private and mainly boarding schools, with some in London day schools. The only exception is where the DC have gone to high performing grammars, like our DC have. Her analysis behind her statement appeared to be fundamentally flawed and no explanation was forthcoming. I also really don't know what she means by 'millionaire' as most people with any property in London would be in that group and some are just struggling to meet ridiculously high mortgage payments and private school is not an option for them.

It is not unreasonable to ask these questions, particularly as I think I fall into the group she is criticising. If it were you who were making the assertions, I would be interested in what you have to say, but it's not.

You are not genuinely interested though. I stated it clearly before

I am totally genuinely interested. I seem to be one of the people you are labelling.

My private school was crumbling; buckets to catch water when it rained and cold drafty asbestos-ridden prefab buildings (1990s). Not all private schools are bastions of wealth. Nor does the state of the buildings reflect the ability of the teaching.

Can you please tell me where the post is where you stated it clearly before because I must have missed that.

Right, but I have provided you with data that counters your belief that most affluent people send their kids to private school. Are you willing to concede that on this point you are mistaken?

I think that's a bit of a reach. I said what my own experience was, that was all. So, No.