To feel so fed up that the only way to get a good education seems to be privately?

[Greensha]

I’m uk based. I live in a reasonably nice area but the schools are rubbish. We’ve looked further afield and they’re all pretty similar. I don’t know if my expectations are off but the classes are huge, like 30 kids in one room (I thought 25 was the max!). The buildings scruffy. One had a lovely lunch room and nice outside space but the rest of the school was falling down. There’s absolutely no way we can afford private and the one local to us is worlds apart to these state schools. I am trying to remind myself that a lot of that is superficial, the teaching is the same in both sectors as the teachers are the same and I know my dc will leave school with a proper and ‘real’ understanding of life. I can’t help but feel my kids are at a disadvantage overall though and it upsets me. Why should some kids get small classes, loads of sport opportunities and nice clean and tidy environments when others don’t. Doesn’t seem right or fair.

Hard to believe it’s only 6% with the amount of noise being made over losing a tax break!

And what about your % of millionaires assumption? Also, how do you define millionaire because in London that would be a vast number of people purely on property value?

@Ballyhoballyhoo the 6% rises to 18% by sixth form. MN is often cited as being London centric where the % is much higher.

I believe @Ballyhoballyhoo brought up millionaires as some kind of measuring stick. You can get lost in the weeds of ‘who do we mean by posh’ here, but the reality is that more than half of kids from families in the top 1% of income (whether generated via salary or other investment) will be state educated. There are plenty of very very wealthy people in our state schools, and plenty of people on more average income in private. If you only look at the average you will miss the diversity of background and experience within each sector. That’s why the stereotypes are so pernicious.

@twistyizzy says frequently on threads that more millionaires send their DC to state schools than private. Given the lack of logic in their calculations upthread, I just wanted to understand what this is actually based on and what constitutes a millionaire.

Not sure where you live. But birth rates are falling and primary schools are much keener to attract pupils now from further afield as catchment areas increase.
Maybe extend your search if you’re not happy with the local option and visit a few more.
I live in London and there are multiple GOOD and OUTStANDING primaries near me from walking distance to 10mins on bus tube or car. I would choose any of these over private any day.
I did choose private secondary and then state sixth form. All experiences were equally good and I had cash free at certain times to use on out of school clubs etc if state school wasn’t providing x

No lack of logic at all. Just a refusal on your part to accept it

Exactly technically someone working at Tesco living in the house inherited from their grandmother in London is a "millionaire" because they are sitting on millions. While someone on six figures who spunks it on schooling and holidays etc is not considered a millionaire.

So talking about "millionaires" is irrelevant obviously the average person can't afford to send their child to private school I have no idea why people on this site insist that it's possible for the average person.

It seems defensive because they are choosing to care so much about other people's opinions. Who cares? If you have the money to send your child to whatever school you want then own it, it's nothing to be ashamed of. It's the constant insistence that anyone could do it if they budgeted more that gets people's backs up.

You don’t have to be a millionaire to pay private school fees- being a top earner can mean £150k, £250k £350k and £350k is a fuck load of money, 10x the average salary.

But saying ‘ can afford private fees’ in £38k is clearly disingenuous. Unless YOU really are forking out £18k PER child and still running a household in £38k salary. Which I very much doubt.

‘So talking about "millionaires" is irrelevant obviously the average person can't afford to send their child to private school I have no idea why people on this site insist that it's possible for the average person.’

its not. And there are plenty of people - myself included - who could pay private school fees but for MANY reasons wouldn’t in a million years. And no, my DCs aren’t in a grammar or an outstanding school either, just a normal one.

@twistyizzy Well explain your logic please because what you have said makes no sense to me.

At 10.01 you posted
There are 3 million , millionaires in UK and only 560,000 kids in Indy schools. Even if 100% of kids at indy schools were the kids of millionaires then the kids of those other 2+ millionaires are in state. However the % of kids in Indy as children of millionaires isn't 100%.

At 11.06 I asked
You are assuming that all millionaires have children and also that their children are of school age! Very strange assumptions going on in your calculations.

At 12.00 I asked
Also, how do you define millionaire because in London that would be a vast number of people purely on property value?

Why so cagey if you can explain your assumptions?

Sorry I just don't think the average person could afford private school fees. If you could afford it you're not average. Which is fine good for you but there's no point in posters who insist anyone could do it on the average salary.

Obviously there's a lot of people in between average and millionaire.

I just talking of "millionaires" is irrelevant. Someone pointed out to me recently that a lot of farmers are millionaires because their land is worth millions. Obviously they COULD sell it and buy a nice house but still. The flip side is someone on six figures who blows all their money on extravagant shit is obviously living a more extravagant existence than a farmer.

I’m agreeing with you! The average person can’t! Obviously… well, obvious to me and some others.
Many private parents seem to think they ARE average despite being able/willing to spend 100s of 1000/s on something that’s free.

I’m in my fifties and aside from small village schools 30 in a class has been the norm all my life!! Why did you think 25 was standard?

Not my experience either. I have 4 DD's - ages 20 to 9 and have never felt their primary education was substandard. The two high schools we've used have both been excellent as well.

In contrast, we have a private school locally that hosts a lot of sports fixtures for local teams that we've been part of and every time I go I think "I would be furious if I paid to come here, the place is grotty and run down"

Of course it is serious. What are the criteria that you use to pass judgement on people?

So YOU can afford to pay for school fees so your children are one of the posh ones from a wealthy background.

I think this stems from the way that the vast majority of people under 40 really struggle to afford the most average of homes regardless of salary. Only those with capital wealth (eg houses bought for a pittance in the 1960s) feel wealthy in the uk. No one with kids in school (private or otherwise) feels wealthy.

My parents are in their mid 70s and say their primary school was 35 or so children per class (state). My secondary school was 28 girls per class for the fourth form, 11-14, 24 for fifth form, 14-16, and max 12 per class for A levels (private).

Of course it is serious. What are the criteria that you use to pass judgement on people

I would also like to know the answer to this but BallyhoBallyhoo isn’t keen on answering.
What about posh children who go to state schools? There are quite a few posters on here who say they’re posh but because they’re decent, moral people would never dream of using private schools.
Please tell us the red flag posh alerts you use when hiring.

Look class sizes in the 60’s were significantly bigger…disruptive kids were kicked out or beaten sometimes both school and home. ND children in institutions and anyone unable to read diverted to trade schools asap. No one is going back there…uni lecture hall can hold 100. These numbers have no bearing on teaching today’s children.
Zero clue how mentioning historic class size without mentioning corporal punishment, institutions or lecture halls helps.
The disruptive kids need help which isn’t happening right now.

Oh yes - I’ll admit to 15 in an A level class - but never less than 30 in a class from 4 to 16. I thought that was the norm in the 1970s-80s, and from 2004 when my DC started and yes, my parents (slightly older than yours) were in larger classes.

So how much does your partner earn? I would imagine it's quite a bit more than 35k.

I don't understand what point you're trying to make.

Your family could be living on 235k total. Stating half your wage goes on fees is meaningless. A household where there's only one earner earning 35k cannot afford fees.

Not a failing one in Special Measures though where knife crime is rife I bet!

Exactly! To me the order of privilege goes:

1. those that can afford private easily and will always take that route.
2. those with an outstanding state offering.
3. those with a not good state offering but can just about afford private.
4. those with a not good state offering and no options other than to take it.