13 years, mortgage, 2 kids... No proposal!?

[Faith27]

Hi, super new here, just after some advice..
Been with my partner 13 years in April. We have 2 wonderful children. It's never been a secret that I want to get married. He's always said he'd "never say never" or "yh one day* ..
3 years ago a random, chilled, no pressure, marriage discussion happened. The end response from him... "I don't want to get married, I don't see the point in it!" ... Would anyone else be furious??? :(
We are off to Paris for our 13 years together anniversary in April.. which I planned! He never says he loves me first, never a cuddle or a kiss unless I get one from him myself. But he can be kind and makes me a cup of tea every morning and helps with chores, he pays all the bills. But he's the most unromantic person ever! :( he says he's happy when I've asked. I Just feel lost and lonely and wish for the ultimate romantic gesture from him. What would you do?.
Will he ever propose?? Xx

Given that he now says emphatically that he doesn't want to get married, that would be un upsetting disaster. No adult is going to change their mind about marrying someone because the other person spent 90 minutes in the kitchen on something a 12 year old could do.

You need to future proof yourself: you need to earn more money, set up a pension etc etc

Make sure you are on his will etc etc. (not that he can't change it etc)

Oh my god. Why are you staying hopeful for a Paris proposal? He's said he doesn't want to marry you!!!

Trust me, romance is overrated. (I say this because I've been blind-sided so many times while prioritising romance in the past!).

This man has exploited you, plain and simple. You've done childcare, housework, etc. all for free, and gone through the physical pain of childbirth, while his career has grown and yours stagnated. And I'm assuming that the kids have got his surname as well. It's sickening what he's done. No, not just that: it's sickening how social narrative has placed an unnecessary and deceptive angle of "romance" on the notion of marriage. Search deeply into how you got the ideas of romance in the first place. I bet more than 80% of the narratives stem from the perspective of straight men.

From a romance angle, this man has shown that he doesn't love you. The butterflies you get indicate just that: your body is warning you that being with him is not safe and that he's an unfamiliar person. In a truly loving and secure relationship, you wouldn't get all these butterflies after so many years together.

Wishing you all the best.

I've seen the most nasty men really lay the romance on thick, especially after they have cheated or have been violent. I've seen so many women fall for the whole romance act and suffer because of it. Give me practical and dependable any day. My marriage isn't romantic but it's real and we support each other well and laugh a lot together. I don't know why you've waited all these years for him to propose if marriage was that important to you. Incidentally marriage wasn't that important to me/us until I had a health scare. He proposed not long after I was out of the woods health wise but that's as romantic as we get. No grand gestures or surprise weekends away here. We don't do smarmy but we do life together quite cosily and we are so grateful of each other. Romance can be nice but it doesn't show commitment or dependability.

I agree.

It's really ridiculous that you're waiting for a proposal from a man who isn't going to propose. Pull up your big girl pants and tell him you need to be married to be equal partners and for your own security. If he refuses to marry you just the two of you in a town hall for £50 then you'll know he doesn't value you or see you as an equal. Marriage isn't about romance.

Not if they own as joint tenants. It automatically transfers to the survivor.

We need to all educate our daughters not to get into this situation.

A man in this situation has no incentive to marry.

So you need to choose your option: stay as a partner, and put any thoughts of wedding and marriage aside for good. Or, leave and find someone who does want marriage.

That was what I mulled over. I realised I wanted to spend the rest of my life with him married or not. But, while I chose to start a family, I kept my job and independence. Them he warmed to the idea of marriage but by then I was in no hurry and had other priorities.

We finally did just to tie up stuff legally in the easiest way possible when we became homeowners.

The best way to make him want to marry you is being financially independent of him, but you might find then that for you, the risks of being married outweigh the benefits 😏.

Out of curiosity who does your half of the house go to? Hope it's your kids and not him!

But you didn't have to "pop" out any kids without a wedding ring so you're equally responsible.

@Mrsbloggz ah get away with you!! You know he spends all his time on a red pill forum ranting about 'divorce rape'

Women taking money from men is becoming less and less of a thing nowadays. It is extremely rare for a man to earn the salaries seen on mumsnet, so it's very likely that OP earns much more money than her partner. This means her partner would benefit financially from divorce.

The only red pill ranting I see nowadays is on mumsnet, where wealthy women complain about having their money taken by "cock lodgers" who earn a fraction of their salaries.

Completely agree. My DD is 24 and despite all the “you don’t need a piece of paper to demonstrate that you love someone” rhetoric you hear every day, I’ve been advising her for years that marriage is a legal contract as well as, or even rather than, some grand declaration of love. She met her love 3 years ago and when they started talking about a future together, DD was very clear that if that future were to include a mortgage and children, a wedding would have to come first. So guess what? They’re getting married this August. Not a big fancy expensive wedding…it’ll be kilts, ceilidh, crochet bunting and haybales on a wee farm, but a marriage none the less. Luckily, her lovely fiancé was more than on board with this, probably even more so than her, and meticulously planned the proposal which he was super proud of. But I am proud of her setting out and sticking to her boundaries.

You haven’t read any of the OP’s posts here, have you?

This is why it’s best to marry before kids, bc now it’s harder to leave. You gave him many years of ur life and men don’t change. Accept reality of who he is or leave. If he wanted to marry you, he would have proposed. I wish you luck x prayers

You're correct. The IHT threshold is £325,000 but many, many houses exceed that by some margin.

congratulations to your daughter, I hope she has a very happy marriage.

I have to say though, it makes my heart sink that your advice to a 24yo woman is get married for security, rather than ‘build a good career, have an equal relationship, and don’t give up said career when you have kids’.

She doesn’t say she wasn’t supportive of her daughter to have a career! This was her advice re relationships - most of our children will have both and it’s only good parenting to advise on both.

I’m not sure why you would assume I didn’t give her that exact advice as well? I’ve been married almost 30 years with 2 kids and a very successful career as a scientist, with financial independence every step of the way. My DD is a teacher and has every intention of having a good career in a vocation she loves and is already financially independent and sensible with her money, and intends to remain that way. Hopefully I’ve demonstrated to her that you can have all these things you talk about if your head is screwed on.

Thank you! I was a bit baffled by that assumption tbh.

Quite- I’m in finance with a maths background. If I were in the uk I’d strongly advise children to get married. Here in Aust you have to remind both that moving in together is a defacto relationship legally.

Then she’d be fine if she wasn’t married. She would have her own money, would own assets, would be able to support herself if the relationship failed, she’d have a pension. She would be providing her own security rather than gaining it from marriage, so why would it be such a non-negotiable?

get married for security, rather than ‘build a good career, have an equal relationship, and don’t give up said career when you have kids’.

Did you think it's not possible to do these things while married?

And what if shit happened and she fell ill or had an accident with 2 kids, unable to work and earn and also unmarried? Life happens and the best laid plans go awry…do you not know this? It’s an extra layer of protection for her and any children. Besides…she and her fiancé want to be married. I’m not sure why you need this explained but hopefully your heart will be lifted now from the fiery depths it sank to.