13 years, mortgage, 2 kids... No proposal!?

[Faith27]

Hi, super new here, just after some advice..
Been with my partner 13 years in April. We have 2 wonderful children. It's never been a secret that I want to get married. He's always said he'd "never say never" or "yh one day* ..
3 years ago a random, chilled, no pressure, marriage discussion happened. The end response from him... "I don't want to get married, I don't see the point in it!" ... Would anyone else be furious??? :(
We are off to Paris for our 13 years together anniversary in April.. which I planned! He never says he loves me first, never a cuddle or a kiss unless I get one from him myself. But he can be kind and makes me a cup of tea every morning and helps with chores, he pays all the bills. But he's the most unromantic person ever! :( he says he's happy when I've asked. I Just feel lost and lonely and wish for the ultimate romantic gesture from him. What would you do?.
Will he ever propose?? Xx

OP I bet you gave the children his surname as well 😔

This thread is such an important illustration of why you NEED to get married as a woman before having children, if having those children is going to negatively affect your income, savings and pension in any way.

Have a discussion about what happens when one if you dies? If married, the spouse just inherits everything, if not, it is not automatic, the house could go to the children, who could kick the survivor out. Inheritance tax may seem to not affect you, but depending where you live, increasing house prices, and the change that pension pots are not eligible to IHT can mean that your assets will be over the thresholds. If you are married you benefit from a double threshold, so £1,000,000, if not married the survivor does not benefit from their spouses allowance and remains at £500,000. This was never an issue for us, as we always seemed to be keeping our heads just above water, but since retiring, increased pension values, increasing house prices and the change to iht on pensions means we now have to bear iht in mind. There are other financial and legal benefits too, that can be solved by drawing up contracts with a solicitor, but it is a lot cheaper to get married.

I think op has had this conversation already and he has already told her he is leaving everything to the children. Leaving her even more exposed.

There is much she can do to protect herself here, I really hope she follows up all of the suggestions on here and puts her security front and centre of her future plans. A day being a princess is irrelevant, the vulnerable position she is in should be her central focus.

Why would he get married?

He has a girlfriend providing him with clean clothes, cooked meals, childcare, and sex. In return, he has no financial risk. Absolute win-win for him, though a lose-lose for you.

It’s an unappetising but incisive adage- “why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?”

It’s meaningless though. His will could be changed without the OP’s knowledge. Same with his pension and any death-in-service benefits.

She’s counting on her ability to not piss him off until the day he dies.

PLEASE don’t put yourself through the misery and embarrassment of paying to take your boyfriend to Paris in the desperate hope he will propose. He won’t and you’ll come back out of pocket and even more resentful and upset. Cancel it and put the money in a savings account to start your ‘sort your life out’ fund. It’ll be far more satisfying. Tell him that you’ve had a sharp wake up call about your situation and can no longer afford to spend money on taking him away. If he’s planning to propose while out there (he isn’t) he can just do it a different time. Trust me, you will feel horrible about yourself after basically dragging him into a set up proposal situation which he completely ignores.

PPs have covered it all - you really need to take their advice. You don’t sound like you have any intention of leaving him, which he clearly knows. That’s your prerogative even though it’s sad you don’t think you’re worth more. But you need to cover yourself for if he leaves you because the end of the relationship could come from either of you. You NEED to get back to full time work and save every penny you can, as well as adding to your pension. Stop all wife work and ensure household chores and childcare plus kids costs are 50/50. But go carefully because any change from you could trigger him to end things which you’re not ready for financially.

You really are in a terrible situation, please focus on improving that and not on desperate hopeful trips to romantic locations which you can’t afford and will only compound your misery.

This thread must be hard reading for you and I hope you’re ok.

Where does OP say she ended up almost broke when on maternity leave? She says she used her savings whilst on mat leave to pay bills and buy things for baby, whilst her partner continued also to pay household bills etc.

If OP wasn’t expected to use savings and mat pay to contribute to the household how else would they have done it? Surely this is what families do?

If OP wasn’t expected to use savings and mat pay to contribute to the household how else would they have done it?

He could have used his plentiful savings, for instance, actually leaving her with some.

Surely this is what families do?

They also don't refuse to get married, leaving one member of the family completely financially vulnerable.

No, he should have started paying into a pension for her and splitting the expenses. He has a very healthy savings pot this should also have been used. Op should have been supplemented for the loss of income too, given the child is both of theirs!

My DH is romantic or cuddly.

Marriage was important to me when we had DS so I told him and we got married.

Don't set your hopes on a proposal that you know in your heart won't come. Have a discussion and explain this important to you and explain you don't want a fuss, just to be legally acknowledged as his life partner.

If he still says no you need to park this and live and enjoy the life you have.

Cancel the Paris trip and save your money. There really isn’t anything to celebrate about any of this. Tell him that you accept marriage isn’t going to happen but ask if he’d consider a civil partnership to protect you if anything ever happens to him. The legal protection is what matters not a romantic proposal.

Having entitlement to inherit half a house will leave you and the children in poverty. Is he happy to think of his children (including one who is disabled) becoming homeless if he died? If he still doesn’t care and says no then he really is a complete bastard.

Really? Enjoy the life you have - with no pension, no savings, no job security and a disabled child. Seriously?! 😦

So to your mind, it's okay for OP to accrue and maintain savings that are not in any way meant to be used for the household pot, but her DP isn't allowed to do the same?

Surely deciding to have two young children back to back is a decision that's taken jointly? So OP would have been aware of the impact of this on her future finances and pension, particularly when she chose to launch a start up and works part time. So not only is she contributing less to the household but it's up to her DP to pay into a private pension for her too? He's already shouldering the lions share of the bills (as is seemingly fair based on the income disparity) but this whole thread is completely bonkers.
OP has mentioned that he's kind, he provides for the family, he's a good father, he's loving (although apparently not romantic enough for her liking). And somehow over the course of the thread he's been painted as some sort of controlling financial abuser all because he doesn't want to get married, a stance many people take in this day and age.

That's madness.

The savings should be shared, all of ops savings were used not his. Can you actually read the thread.
His career is fine, her career has taken a major hit. How is that ‘fair’?

As a result he now has a healthy pension, and she doesn’t.

He isn’t lifting a finger at home, so she can’t afford to work full time as their child is disabled, putting her at a massive financial disadvantage!

How is any of that fair???
Paying a proportionate amount for the bills in no way makes up for any of this. As he well knows, which is exactly why he won’t marry her!

This.

Save your money and cancel Paris. He doesn't care about you or your security. That's hardly a relationship worth celebrating.

Focus on your earning power.

He is not going to Marry you, because he does not want to. The least you should be willing to accept is a Civil Partnership to at least give you some sort of protections and rights.

Yes, he can make a will, put you as the beneficiary of his pension pot and make all the right noises about wanting to protect you as a equal, but in reality he can kiss you on the head, walk into the next room and change the will, pension and NOK details and not only would you not know, but you would have no more rights than a stranger on the street.

This is why a Marriage or Civil partnership is so important, it protects you in ways that only a divorce can sever . All other ways he can pull the rug from under you and you have no rights to know or object.

You are being played for absolute fool

Definitely cancel Paris, open a savings account. Put the money into it, and start saving the household money like the clappers. This man does NOT have your back.

There is nothing wrong with not being romantic, and it's not the issue here. If you want to be married tell him that you have decided that marriage is important to you and if it is not what he wants then you need to seperate. Why should you settle for what he wants? Forget about a romantic proposal though, that's just nonsense.

@Faith27 If it helps, ive been with my OH for nearly 20 years, since we were 15 and we went to brussels before xmas and he proposed and hes been talking about saving up for the next few years and what type of wedding he wants.

I have noted a couple of wrong perceptions on the thread. 1) if you are married everything goes to you. No that is not true. If a will says differently then that is what will happen. 2) A married persons will cannot be changed without consulting a spouse. Again there is no legal reason for this.

I love him and I want to feel that he loves me back. I can't leave him, I couldn't do it it the kids. He says he is happy. Home is happy. I just want to be engaged, I want him to show me that he loves me. I want a real romantic note from him not "romantic note" on the note pad. :(

If you won't leave him that you have to accept that this is your life. You can't control him into doing what you want.

Leave him or live with it.

He's in a far stronger financial position.to you. If he married you and you later broke up you'd get half his pension and savings. You should have got married before having your DC if you wanted marriage. He's got everything he wants without marrying you and holds all the aces.

if you are married everything goes to you. No that is not true. If a will says differently then that is what will happen.

That doesn't appear to be true.

https://www.co-oplegalservices.co.uk/media-centre/articles-may-aug-2018/how-does-marriage-affect-your-will/

"In England and Wales, when you get married any legally valid Will that you previously put in place automatically becomes void, unless it makes specific reference to your intended marriage.

This means that if you don't either make a Will in contemplation of your marriage or make a new Will after you get married, the law will decide who inherits from you after you die...

Under marriage laws in England and Wales, any pre-existing Will is revoked when you enter into a legally binding marriage contract. This means that if you die without making a new Will after you get married, the law will decide who should inherit from you, under inheritance laws called the Rules of Intestacy.

Under the Rules of Intestacy, if you are married with children and the Estate is under £322k then your spouse would receive everything. If you are married with children and the Estate is over £322k (say £400k, for example) then your spouse would receive £322k of this plus your personal belongings. The remaining £78k would then be split 50/50 between your spouse and your children; your spouse would receive 50% of this and your children would equally share the other 50%."

There are also inheritance tax exemptions for married people that can't be replicated outside of marriage.

So to your mind, it's okay for OP to accrue and maintain savings that are not in any way meant to be used for the household pot, but her DP isn't allowed to do the same?

Per the OP, he has a healthy amount of savings and a good pension pot and she has neither. So I'm not sure why you're making up random things that I never said.

Yes, this is it, OP.

He won't marry you; that's simply not an option. If leaving isn't an option either then you have to make the best of what you've got and put yourself first the way he's done.