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Brilliant article about the rape gangs in the UK

1000 replies

Petrine · 08/01/2025 10:07

I’ve put this on AIBU as it appears to be most read. A brilliant article about the rape gangs and the ensuing cover up.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/01/07/elon-musk-has-ripped-cloak-of-deceit-off-britain-scandal/

OP posts:
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17
Feelingathomenow · 09/01/2025 09:33

Jazzicatz · 09/01/2025 09:10

But why is it necessary? Inquiries are expensive and time consuming and requires victims to once again go over the terrible abuse they suffered. It it had a purpose then fine, but this is just being used for political gain and has nothing to do with that is in the best interests of the victims.

Actually there are many stones unturned in the existing inquiries/recommendation - mainly due to fear of being called racist/islamaphobic. Have you read the Muslim Council of Britain comments on the situation from a couple of days ago someone posted? Neil those points are addressed the underlying problem will remain unresolved.

rrrrrreatt · 09/01/2025 09:36

Ereshkigalangcleg · 09/01/2025 09:05

They’ve referenced their data source for their claim most perpetrators of group based SA are white and it’s a reputable organisation funded by the Home Office and hosted by Barnardos.

Its spin. This is a white majority country so of course most perpetrators of any crime are white. They also are lacking in much of the data needed to draw this conclusion.
The perpetrators in this particular form of organised sexual assault are mostly from a particular culture. The victims are mostly white. There are common cultural features to these crimes. It was also part of why they were effective that the problem was brushed under the carpet by people in authority. So it is relevant, and it's doing the victims a disservice to pretend it isn't and handwave it away.

Maybe we should treat these specific crimes as racially aggravated hate crime as Maggie Oliver suggests in her evidence, which the inquiry left out? I think there's a good argument for that. It would likely be if reversed.

Catholic priests are a tiny proportion of all sex crimes of any ethnicity, but they are considered significant for some very good reasons. No sacred castes.

I don’t want it covered up and Im not saying ethnicity isn’t relevant, I just don’t think the Muslim faith as a whole is accountable for these crimes or the actions of police/Local Authorities/etc. The police/LAs are accountable for covering it up.

A national public inquiry is a waste of time for the same reasons raised by PPs. Look at Hillsborough, the infected blood scandal, etc. There’s a finite amount of resource in the system and it needs to be used for action. What good is an inquiry if you walk into Tesco the next day and one of your abusers is there, free as a bird and holding hands with a child?

The resource needs to be used to prosecute historic offences because these men still walk amongst us, implement the recommendations of the previous inquiry which will improve safeguarding for all children, increasing education and training, etc. If that change is reclassifying these specific crimes as racially aggravated hate crimes - good because it’ll mean someone is finally actually doing something.

Every CSA victim deserves actual justice, not the lip service an inquiry would offer, and every child deserves a safe childhood protected from abuse.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 09/01/2025 09:39

Here's what Andrew Norfolk, who did a lot to bring these to media attention in 2011, thinks:

"However, Norfolk pointed to a “critical piece of research” that had never been done. He was disappointed when the Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse, which issued its final report in October 2022 and was led by Professor Alexis Jay, did not examine the issues of why the grooming scandal happened.

Norfolk paid tribute to Jay’s “hugely important work in Rotherham” after her explosive earlier report in 2014 revealed at least 1,400 underage girls, some as young as 11, had been victims of sexual exploitation between 1997 and 2013 in the south Yorkshire town.

However, the national inquiry shied away from investigating the causation of grooming gangs, “probably for not dissimilar reasons why left-wing academics still attack me”, Norfolk said.

It is very difficult to talk about this stuff without being accused of being Islamophobic. That’s not going to change.”

However, Norfolk strongly believes that independent research of a range of issues is essential to understanding the phenomenon. Such issues included Islamic jurisprudence and how it can impact on the treatment of girls and women, and ingrained factors in some communities such as arranged and cousin marriages and how they impact on relationships.

Why one very small sub-section of one minority ethnic community was so overwhelmingly, disproportionately responsible for these crimes — that is work that would be vital in bringing about understanding that could enable changes to take place. How do you address it and stamp it out if you don’t understand why it is happening in the first place?”

He warned that “everybody is still too scared”, but it was a vacuum that allowed the far right to continue exploiting grooming victims.

It’s the void into which Elon Musk and [the far-right activist] Tommy Robinson can shout, spread lies and poison.”

Not that different to what posters here are suggesting.

Solutiontheassoffthisthing · 09/01/2025 09:39

THIS IS NOT AN ISSUE OF RACE!

I worked with young people in the care system for years and covered the period of time that the Rotherham abuse happened.

Vulnerable young people have been groomed, coerced, controlled, raped and abused since the dawn of time. There have been disgusting, predatory men, willing to take advantage of vulnerability, since the dawn of time. They come in all skin tones.

I saw men of ALL skin tones and different heritages committing this kind of heinous abuse.

The fact that SOME are brown skinned and from areas of the world in which women’s rights are not so well developed, is being used as a far right dog whistle.

If the police felt less able to do something for fear of being labelled racist then that needs addressing. My understanding is that this has been flagged and is now part of training. The more diverse the police force is, the easier this will become.

My direct experience of discussions in multi-agency meetings around this issue, was that the police wanted to arrest the perpetrators but it was hard to know what for, when the young people were saying they were willing participants or denying anything happened. It was also a lack of understanding of the impact of trauma and a labelling the young people as bad because they too committed crimes and behaved in anti social ways (because of their traumatic upbringing). They were the two key barriers to protection and justice that I witnessed.

Lessons were learned. There is now much better understanding of coercion, control and grooming and much more trauma informed practice.

There is a long way to go and male to female violence, coercion, control and sexual abuse/assault/violence are a massive problem.

Were/are some of these sexually exploitive gangs brown skinned and originally from countries with under evolved women’s rights? Yes.

Were/are some of them white and born in the UK? Yes.

Is country of origin sometimes a part of the picture for those gangs from countries with under evolved women’s rights? Yes.

Is it always part of the picture? No.

Was it better for vulnerable women pre immigration? No. And we have always had immigration going back as far as the Beaker people in the stone age. Women have always been victims of male sexual control and violence.

It was only in the 1970s that it became illegal for a man to beat his wife in the UK and only 1991 that marital rape became a crime. There is no golden age we can go back to where women were safe from sexual exploitation, abuse and violence.

The vulnerability of traumatised, neglected and abused children and young people remains. The threat of exploitative, sexually predatory monsters remains. Both victims and perpetrators come in all colours, religious backgrounds and cultural heritage.

If this debate continues in this divisive way we will head down a very dangerous path and this is what the far right and Russia/China want. They want division and instability.

We have to stand together against violence, exploitation, coercion, control, grooming, sexual abuse and violence as behaviours, not allow it to be tied up and confused with race.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 09/01/2025 09:40

I don’t want it covered up and Im not saying ethnicity isn’t relevant, I just don’t think the Muslim faith as a whole is accountable for these crimes or the actions of police/Local Authorities/etc.

I don't think this either though.

lifeturnsonadime · 09/01/2025 09:45

I don’t want it covered up and Im not saying ethnicity isn’t relevant, I just don’t think the Muslim faith as a whole is accountable for these crimes or the actions of police/Local Authorities/etc

I agree that the Muslim faith, as a whole, isn't responsible.

But in the light of the way that women and girls are treated in countries like Afghanistan, it is not inconceivable that their is a link between abhorrent treatment of women and girls and (at least certain factions) of the Muslim faith. Just in the same way that most Muslims are peaceful but some are not.

I have no doubt I will be called racist for pointing this out.

But I'm sick to the teeth that women and girls are globally harmed because of fear and intimidation and being called racist for pointing it out.

And no doubt some will come back with 'oh well but white men rape too', yes of course (I was raped by a white man), but it is the institutional coverup that is the issue. We absolutely know that this happened because there is clear evidence of it.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 09/01/2025 09:45

I worked with young people in the care system for years and covered the period of time that the Rotherham abuse happened.

Thanks for your informed view and personal perspective. If you read the full thread you'll see that at least one "grooming gang" victim, and another whose friend was a victim has commented here.

I've also worked closely alongside social services in the mid 2000s (not with any known organised abuse of this nature at the time) so I understand something about how they operated then.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 09/01/2025 09:46

And no doubt some will come back with 'oh well but white men rape too', yes of course (I was raped by a white man), but it is the institutional coverup that is the issue. We absolutely know that this happened because there is clear evidence of it.

Exactly. And the 2015 inquiry into Rotherham Council by Louise Casey makes this element clear.

HappyPanda613 · 09/01/2025 09:49

Solutiontheassoffthisthing · 09/01/2025 09:39

THIS IS NOT AN ISSUE OF RACE!

I worked with young people in the care system for years and covered the period of time that the Rotherham abuse happened.

Vulnerable young people have been groomed, coerced, controlled, raped and abused since the dawn of time. There have been disgusting, predatory men, willing to take advantage of vulnerability, since the dawn of time. They come in all skin tones.

I saw men of ALL skin tones and different heritages committing this kind of heinous abuse.

The fact that SOME are brown skinned and from areas of the world in which women’s rights are not so well developed, is being used as a far right dog whistle.

If the police felt less able to do something for fear of being labelled racist then that needs addressing. My understanding is that this has been flagged and is now part of training. The more diverse the police force is, the easier this will become.

My direct experience of discussions in multi-agency meetings around this issue, was that the police wanted to arrest the perpetrators but it was hard to know what for, when the young people were saying they were willing participants or denying anything happened. It was also a lack of understanding of the impact of trauma and a labelling the young people as bad because they too committed crimes and behaved in anti social ways (because of their traumatic upbringing). They were the two key barriers to protection and justice that I witnessed.

Lessons were learned. There is now much better understanding of coercion, control and grooming and much more trauma informed practice.

There is a long way to go and male to female violence, coercion, control and sexual abuse/assault/violence are a massive problem.

Were/are some of these sexually exploitive gangs brown skinned and originally from countries with under evolved women’s rights? Yes.

Were/are some of them white and born in the UK? Yes.

Is country of origin sometimes a part of the picture for those gangs from countries with under evolved women’s rights? Yes.

Is it always part of the picture? No.

Was it better for vulnerable women pre immigration? No. And we have always had immigration going back as far as the Beaker people in the stone age. Women have always been victims of male sexual control and violence.

It was only in the 1970s that it became illegal for a man to beat his wife in the UK and only 1991 that marital rape became a crime. There is no golden age we can go back to where women were safe from sexual exploitation, abuse and violence.

The vulnerability of traumatised, neglected and abused children and young people remains. The threat of exploitative, sexually predatory monsters remains. Both victims and perpetrators come in all colours, religious backgrounds and cultural heritage.

If this debate continues in this divisive way we will head down a very dangerous path and this is what the far right and Russia/China want. They want division and instability.

We have to stand together against violence, exploitation, coercion, control, grooming, sexual abuse and violence as behaviours, not allow it to be tied up and confused with race.

Edited

Well said.

The Pakistani community of this country has been completely thrown under the bus by the establishment and people, who would rather succumb to petty tribal squabbles, over introspection about the rape culture and misogyny that is rife in British society.

Of course, no community is perfect, but studies have shown repeatedly that ethnic minorities in this country are much more hard working, law abiding and less misogynistic than the pre-existing population. This lie cannot be allowed to be perpetuated any longer, and I’m glad people are starting to show up in this thread with facts and reason to shine light on the hateful bigots.

Solutiontheassoffthisthing · 09/01/2025 09:49

Ereshkigalangcleg · 09/01/2025 09:45

I worked with young people in the care system for years and covered the period of time that the Rotherham abuse happened.

Thanks for your informed view and personal perspective. If you read the full thread you'll see that at least one "grooming gang" victim, and another whose friend was a victim has commented here.

I've also worked closely alongside social services in the mid 2000s (not with any known organised abuse of this nature at the time) so I understand something about how they operated then.

I am not sure why you have pointed that out. I think you are confusing me citing my own experience to give context, as me suggesting others first hand experience doesn’t count in someway or that my view is somehow more important. That isn’t what I was saying. I just wanted to give context to my views.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 09/01/2025 09:50

I've seen very few people actively cheerleading for Musk, or Farage or Tommy Robinson on this thread. The ones who have expressed that they are glad he's spoken are simply not wanting this issue to be brushed under the carpet, and whether other posters agree or approve or not, whether it causes tension, or whatever happens, they just welcome the attention it's getting, and the pressure being put on Starmer and his party.

Feelingathomenow · 09/01/2025 09:54

rrrrrreatt · 09/01/2025 08:47

No, this isn’t what they NEED to say - it’s what you want them to say because of your personal views.

They’ve referenced their data source for their claim most perpetrators of group based SA are white and it’s a reputable organisation funded by the Home Office and hosted by Barnardos.

If the issue is Pakistani Muslim men, like you claim, they couldn’t put out a statement saying so many Muslim men and referring to Muslim men throughout - the majority of Muslims in the UK aren’t of Pakistani heritage. If it’s one segment of the Muslim community and you believe an investigation is needed to find out why they do it, surely it’s too early to assume it’s driven by religion rather than ethnicity?

Oh it is what they should be saying - granted they can add on Pakistani Muslim men. The whole statement they put out reads that they consider themselves to be the victims - quite frankly it’s disgusting

Ereshkigalangcleg · 09/01/2025 09:56

I am not sure why you have pointed that out. I think you are confusing me citing my own experience to give context, as me suggesting others first hand experience doesn’t count in someway or that my view is somehow more important. That isn’t what I was saying. I just wanted to give context to my views.

That's good, as I said, it's great to have your perspective as someone working in this area, but different political opinions exist about how these problems should be dealt with. And I don't agree with your rather glib statement that the police have had it "flagged" that they shouldn't be afraid to act on this type of crime because of racial tensions so all is ok. The police are institutionally misogynistic. Some toolkits aren't going to address that.

sweetheartyparty · 09/01/2025 09:59

Jazzicatz · 09/01/2025 09:33

Well then what good is an inquiry? How will that help the current victims? Surely what js needed is the recommendations gathered through all the previous local investigations be enacted with the current cases. An inquiry won’t make it all go away, it never does and within the violence against women and girls sector there has been research after research which highlights the issues and provides recommendations and nothing is ever done. The right-wing media/politicians aren’t remotely bothered about the victims, if they were then why wasn’t this raised in the manifestos leading up to the recent election. This is about racism and is being used by the political right to further attack Muslims.

Completely agree. Another inquiry will just add further delay. We need to action the recommendations and the last government did diddly squat on this

HappyPanda613 · 09/01/2025 10:02

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Babadookinthewardrobe · 09/01/2025 10:05

The girls were not “choosing” their brutal rape @HappyPanda613. What a twattish comment. Rape apologist.

Dideon · 09/01/2025 10:05

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Solutiontheassoffthisthing · 09/01/2025 10:08

Ereshkigalangcleg · 09/01/2025 09:56

I am not sure why you have pointed that out. I think you are confusing me citing my own experience to give context, as me suggesting others first hand experience doesn’t count in someway or that my view is somehow more important. That isn’t what I was saying. I just wanted to give context to my views.

That's good, as I said, it's great to have your perspective as someone working in this area, but different political opinions exist about how these problems should be dealt with. And I don't agree with your rather glib statement that the police have had it "flagged" that they shouldn't be afraid to act on this type of crime because of racial tensions so all is ok. The police are institutionally misogynistic. Some toolkits aren't going to address that.

My ‘flagged’ statement was not intended as glib. I meant that this isn’t new news that this is a problem. Of course there is a lot more work to do and misogynistic views are sadly still very rife in the U.K. I agree.

“different political opinions exist about how these problems should be dealt with.”

What does that mean? What would that look like?

HappyPanda613 · 09/01/2025 10:08

Babadookinthewardrobe · 09/01/2025 10:05

The girls were not “choosing” their brutal rape @HappyPanda613. What a twattish comment. Rape apologist.

This is not my position, I am speculating that this is could be the perspective of many men on the right of the political spectrum.

I agree that if so, it would be a disgusting perspective.

HappyPanda613 · 09/01/2025 10:09

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I’m sorry? I don’t recall mentioning that I am a student at all, I’m afraid I’m a little too old for that 😅

Ereshkigalangcleg · 09/01/2025 10:10

What does that mean? What would that look like?

Who knows? That's why an inquiry or similar is needed, rather than social media speculation.

ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · 09/01/2025 10:10

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Oh do make it stop.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 09/01/2025 10:11

Are people reporting these posts? They've crossed a line now I think.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 09/01/2025 10:13

We're talking about tween and teenage girls brutally raped and tortured by adult men, the rape apologist comments are utterly vile.

lifeturnsonadime · 09/01/2025 10:13

Oh my god, these children were not choosing to be gang raped and tortured.

This is the vilest thing I have ever read on Mumsnet.

You should be deeply ashamed of yourself.

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