To think asking permission to take off a blazer is utterly ridiculous?

[ShowJumpSally]

My child's school has just moved into a new trust. Clearly it's one of those trusts as the latest email announces how children will be placed in internal exclusion or be suspended if they dare to wear a coat in the building or take their blazer off without asking permission.

Schools consistently moan about funding, there's a teaching retention crisis, teachers are overworked and leaving in their hoards, TAs are underpaid and in short supply, children's mental health is worse than ever, but somehow there's time and money to dish out internal exclusions if child gets hot and dares takes their blazer off without asking?

Aibu to say schools should try focussing their time, attention and money on the real issues instead of nonsense made up ones?
^

Chaos isn’t caused by the blazer rule though

simple rules like pen, pencils, books, iPads whatever you need for a lesson are that comes with consequences for not having. This helps in the real world of being organised and a few adjustments for the SEN kids.

On the boot thing, I hear that one of my local schools have finally agreed that the kids can wear black trainers to school.

My son's secondary school used to say they had to wear shoes that would be suitable for a wedding (so deeply impractical especially when it's icy).

Glad to hear that at least one school locally has discovered common sense.

Exactly this.

There is zero need for blazers or ties. Get rid of them and then you won't "have" to have stupid rules about when you can and can't taken them off.

I do wonder what planet some headteachers are on, although it usually seems to be academy heads who have the most ludicrous rules.

My son's secondary school used to say they had to wear shoes that would be suitable for a wedding (so deeply impractical especially when it's icy).

Thats ridiculous when in many families children have one pair of shoes for everything. The idea that there’s endless money for single purpose items of clothing belies the financial reality for lots of families, not to mention the environmental impact of multiple similar but single purpose items of clothing.

I wore trainers to the last wedding I went to so I guess trainers are fine anyway

"Shoes suitable for a wedding" ......
So that's sparkling high heels and cream coloured ballet flats then 😂😂

I wouldn’t send my DC to a school which had DC in trainers. It sets the tone ring tone for the whole place.

@TreeSquirrel failure to enforce rules. Exactly. It did say ineffective SLT. This was never about blazers or stupid rules. It was about a school being run badly. Blazers or the lack of them would've made no difference.

The tone that comfort matters?

Trainers are pretty common in the workplace now, you know. I’ve even seen our CEO wearing them around the office.

Thread is pages long so this has probably been hashed over endlessly but I’ll chuck my two pence in anyway.

We live in south London, an area that is ok but the surrounding areas are rife with knife crime. A14 year old boy was killed this week, stabbed on a bus, two days after going back to school. This is not uncommon. In my area, a few months ago, a kid stabbed another kid 8 times on a train in front of several adult passengers. It’s rife. And they don’t give a shit when and where it happens.

My son is twelve and goes to an academy. They have a lot of what feel like draconian and unnecessary rules like, and including, this one. They are extremely strict and have very high expectations. It is needed and I would rather that than a school that didn’t acknowledge what is happening to our children. They need to be extremely strict because they have lost the kids if they don’t. At first I had a similar opinion to you but over time I’ve started to understand the school cannot lose control because it is just far too easy for the kids to slip into really bad situations.

You seriously think ‘teachers’ have any say in setting these rules ?

This is not about blazers, it's about recognising authority and understanding that sometimes you need to adhere to rules whether you agree with them or not. Teenagers are always going to push boundaries- it's their nature, it's what they like to do. Providing an environment, where removing a blazer without permission is crossing a boundary, leads to a much better behaved set of young people. Rules will always be flouted by some but much better that they are small ones that won't affect other students and their learning.

Abusing someone physically or verbally is crossing a boundary. Removing a blazer when hot is only crossing a boundary of power and is built on a lack of respect for pupils.

Except having a billion rules (a lot of them daft) without enforcing them is pointless . So you have to police and enforce the rules, down to lining up all the kids(mostly boys) and getting them to lift their trousers up to check the colour of their socks(real life example). That wastes everyone's time as registration is a lot longer , then the faff and giving a consequence for if they're the wrong colour. Again, wasting more time (mainly for the teachers). Never mind that the kids all think it's ridiculous , because it is, and they're not stupid.

When you end up having lunchtime detention outside because you have so many kids they won’t actually fit indoors (again real life example) , maybe... just maybe you should consider a different approach.

you really think they get far better results because they don’t wear uniforms? They get far better results as they have better education systems, uniforms have nothing to do with it!

They do of course all have their names in don't they?

I completely see where you're coming from and it does seem very Draconian. However as a long term Secondary teacher, and more recently supply teacher I've worked in a lot of school. Even in schools in the so-called nice areas it is a struggle to manage low level disruption/ behaviour. Everything has to be really tight and it does start with uniform. I've worked in places where it's more relaxed and bit by bit the standards start to slip. It's a shame for the students who behave well, and don't need such strict discipline. But unfortunately, there's a whole hoard out there who need the absolute strictest of rules to keep them in line - and if they're not in line, then no-one is going to be able to learn

Uniform policy’s are grossly out of hand

schools are meant to prepare you for work

in no work place accept the military will you be Told you can’t wear an aspect of uniform if you are to hot or to cold, in no workplace will you be lined up and sent home if you dare come in with trousers the wrong shade of grey or in colored socks or your skirt is mm to short because you are tall

I work in an industry where uniform is worn to meet the public! Does my uniform have to be clean, smart and well fitted when on public display ? Yes! Can we remove a layer when it’s hot? Yes can we add a layer when it’s cold yes as long as it’s smart and within policy, it’s no where near as petty and ridiculous as what schools are doing now

same with going to the toilet no work place will deny you the right to go when needed

discipline is turning up on time, being smart and presentable, being polite to teachers and students, not being disrespectful or disruptive in class, not being uncomfortable for being to hot and having to ask to remove a blazer or likewise not being able to wear a smart coat if it’s 0 outside and not warm in the building, not denying a child the toilet or putting them in isolation for having the wrong color socks or pens it’s gone to far

schools should be concentrating on education and students well being and preparing them for work

Uniform rules are way to extreme

yes a uniform needs to worn but excluding a child for being cold and needing an extra layer or to hot and needing to remove one is ridiculous

I work a job with a uniform and quite a strict one and if I need an extra layer or to shed a layer I don’t need permission

there’s nothing in this that prepares a child for work it’s just taking a rule so far it’s laughable and the punishment doesn’t fit the crime

Why does it start with uniform though?

Nobody has so far managed to give an explanation of the fact that most countries manage to run schools perfectly fine without uniform.

I totally agree that letting kids get away with breaking trivial rules means that they get used to the idea that they can get away with breaking rules. That's why people constantly trot out this idea that 'you have to be strict on the minor things in order to keep discipline over the major things. But it's not true. You can just decide not to have any trivial rules (why would you?!) and instead just be really strict about the sensible rules you do have.

If we most have uniforms, make them affordable and generic with no silly rules about when/where certain items must be on/off or about sock colour, earring size, scrunchie colour, logos, pleated or non pleated skirts or any of that nonsense. Make it super easy for kids to get it right, then tell them they're all great for getting it right! Easy win, everyone happy.

They will be able to take them off in class. They might need to ask but the answer will always be yes.
If you are bothered about teacher retention don’t be the parent who is a twat about this; if the trust are coming down hard the teachers will have enough on.

But the answer won't always be yes.
There will be plenty of parents telling you how kids are still being forced to wear blazers in heatwaves! And lets not even get onto permission being refused to go to the toilet, resulting in kids wetting and bleeding through their clothes. No wonder kids rebel and have high anxiety!

Some of the boys at the school my kids attended would stuff their books inside the blazer between the fabric outter and the polyester inner. There was a secret zip to access that area. Must have really weighed them down, but they didn't seem to care.

For those of you saying there’s nothing to worry about because teachers will always give permission to take your coats on or off…

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/newsmanchester/parents-blast-school-for-refusing-to-let-pupils-wear-coats-in-freezing-classrooms/ar-BB1rff57

Bear in mind the teachers may not have a choice. It’s usually the heads of academies who manage to get drunk on even a trivial amount of power.

Every teacher on this thread agrees with enforcing uniform rules to avoid bigger rule breaches. I find it bizarre that parents with no teaching experience, think that they know what works with schools managing hundreds, if not thousands of students.
I don't tell my dentist how to look after my teeth. I don't tell my doctor that I know better either. I'm not sure why people consider a school and its staff as something they can mould and train into what they want. It's a crazy, impossible notion that gives no credit to the years of learning the staff have under their belts. It's no wonder these professionals are leaving in droves.
By all means, keep up your riotous battles on your teens' behalf. Make sure they don't have to follow rules that don't really put them out that much anyway. I'm sure you'll sleep better at night knowing that your child didn't have to ask permission for something arbitrary.
But when they are 30 and looking to you to solve their problems because the working world isn't working for them the way they'd prefer, know that you are the reason they have unreasonable expectations of life. There are hierarchies everywhere and conforming to basic things like dress code will be the least of their worries