To think asking permission to take off a blazer is utterly ridiculous?

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My child's school has just moved into a new trust. Clearly it's one of those trusts as the latest email announces how children will be placed in internal exclusion or be suspended if they dare to wear a coat in the building or take their blazer off without asking permission.

Schools consistently moan about funding, there's a teaching retention crisis, teachers are overworked and leaving in their hoards, TAs are underpaid and in short supply, children's mental health is worse than ever, but somehow there's time and money to dish out internal exclusions if child gets hot and dares takes their blazer off without asking?

Aibu to say schools should try focussing their time, attention and money on the real issues instead of nonsense made up ones?
^

We always had to ask permission to take blazers off. I don't see the issue!

Schools are judged constantly. People are in and out for all sorts of reasons - social workers, ed psychs, police, health professionals, teachers from other schools, parents, prospective parents.....they see the school, they see what's going on, what it looks like. Appearance is everything. Keeping a blazer on is an attempt at looking smart to the outside world. A uniformity, if you will, within the school environment, looking smart, neat and tidy....it's the impression people get of the school. It doesn't take much for people to start talking about a school in negative turns - children wandering about wearing all sorts, some in trainers, some in thigh high boots, girls with their arse cheeks hanging out, some with bright blue hair, some with joggers instead of trousers, half of them with their shirts hanging out....compare that with 'I went in, all the kids looked smart in their uniforms, it felt like a really positive working environment to be in'.

How can you move your child if other schools in the area have similar rules? And why should they have their education disrupted in this way?

If you understand the need to ask for permission, can you explain it? Because no-one on this thread has managed to come up with a sensible explanation. How come when I was at school we didn't have to ask for permission and yet managed to come out non-feral with lots of qualifications, and without constantly losing our uniform?

Nobody on this thread has argued for having no rules.

The short version is cohesion, community, pride in your appearance. Most kids are much less bothered by blazers than their parents. Fully take your point about teachers could say no, unfortunately there are bad apples in every barrel. I don’t actually want to argue- I can see your point, and I’m just trying to explain it from another pov. I’m not saying you’re wrong, just why it can be a good thing.

That doesn't mean they should put in place pointless rules that don't accommodate what anyone wants.

Schools do still have a legal duty to provide for needs of child with SEN and disabilities. It's hardly providing a great example of rule compliance to their pupils if they themselves ignore the law, is it?

No, only the ones they personally agree with.

It seems to be a lack of imagination to think that the only way to stop girls coming to school with blue hair and their arses hanging out is to insist they wear a blazer at all times and to take it off only with permission.

@Sevenwondersofthewoo - while there is no actual legal requirement to wear school uniform in Scotland, the literal wording on the school website is:

A black blazer (woollen or polyester) with a XXXXX XXXXXX School badge is compulsory for all pupils.

And it was certainly compulsory when I attended, (although not enforced by exclusions, as I don't believe that is allowed in Scotland), which I can't imagine has changed.

How can you move your child if other schools in the area have similar rules? And why should they have their education disrupted in this way?

You're really not listening to anything being told you here. Schools trying to be schools. Trying their best. Trying to make sure kids behave so that learning takes place. You don't like it, tough. There are plenty of other schools to choose from and if they don't suit you, homeschooling.

I suggest if you're that bothered you spend some time in a high school near you and you'll soon get the idea.

There is much more likely to be chaos and anarchy if the school doesn't at least attempt to keep stupid rules off its books. Children simply are not going to respect schools which insist on illogical rules, nor are they going to respect teachers who blindly follow and enforce them.

It’s not difficult to imagine the schools with blazer rules will likely have rules about skirt length and hair colour.

The issue is that it's a waste of your time, it's a waste of the teachers' time, and it is potentially dangerous if they refuse to allow it.

It's nothing new. Been the same in the three schools I have worked in and very rarely a problem 'put you blazer on' 'take your coat off' is usually enough.

Like a PP I tell my classes they don't need to ask to take them off, that they just can as long as they put them on at the end.

We also have a list of students who have uniform variations due to SEND.

So all schools in, for example, France, Germany, Italy and Spain must be lacking in positive working environments then? It's really about time people realised that you can do well and have a good work ethic without wearing a blazer, or indeed a uniform at all. What's important is what they are doing, not what they are wearing.

The lovely teachers (in jeans) and their students (also in jeans, and trainers ) at the German school with which I've just run an exchange programme would be pretty baffled by the suggestion that their lack of 'smart' clothes mean they don't have a positive working environment. They are fascinated and slightly amused by our kids' uniform! I could start another whole thread about the other things their teachers find baffling abou lt our school system...

I promise you, school inspectors are not impressed by pupils sweltering uniformly in blazers. Yes, they should be reasonably respectable, but inspectors have no problem walking into a classroom full of pupils in jeans and T shirts, or even joggers and hoodies. Other people might be impressed, but frankly if you are impressed by a load of sweaty smelly kids in polyester blazers who are not learning because they are so uncomfortable, your opinion is worth very little.

But that's not what would happen is it? Some children might have a blazer on, some might not, that's it. I don't even see how it's any different to how some might have their jumper on and some might not but no one seems to mandate jumper wearing in schools. What's the bizarre fascination with blazers staying on?

Trying to make sure kids behave

That's the point.
How does taking an article of clothing off one's own body fit that?

Why do you have to ask permission to take your blazer off to show pride in your appearance?

Really not my job to be imaginative as to blue hair and arses hanging out. My job is to teach. Let me teach. What people are not understanding is just how difficult that can be - and how rules, however ridiculous you might find them, are needed to help us get the bloody teaching done.

“Wants”?! I think the word you are looking for is “needs”.

And I also think you’ll find that schools are legally obliged to take SEN into account.

I’m sorry you don’t give a shit about SEN but luckily the law and decent schools don’t share your ableist opinions.

I agree, OP. It's not like there is a choice of relaxed, chilled out schools with no uniforms or draconian punishments. They are nearly all the bloody same.

I always thought Pink Floyd's The Wall was OTT about the relatively hippy dippy education I received in the 1980s and 1990s (that was pretty good compared with schools now in so many ways) but it is bloody spot on with secondary education these days.

I've spent plenty of time in high schools, I know what I'm talking about. The very fact that good schools exist that don't go in for these draconian rules demonstrate that they are not necessary. However, in some areas it is very difficult to find those schools, particularly where the big academy chains have got a grip, and therefore there isn't a real choice. Saying you can homeschool is, with respect, ridiculous. It should be possible to send your child to school without risking them being subject to bossy adults who won't trust them to make their own decisions about when they do or do not need to wear a blazer.

So many people are saying this. Given that there are many sensible teachers who basically make it clear to pupils that they can make their own decisions, why is the rule needed at all?

And why is it so hard to understand that, while it's great for pupils if they do have sensible teachers, it really isn't great for the ones who don't?

Absolutely true. But when you have chosen the place you want to work you then have to abide by your contract and rules when you work there. And there will be rules. That’s the point.

So no not utter nonsense. It’s utter nonsense that you can’t make this connection.