To think asking permission to take off a blazer is utterly ridiculous?

[ShowJumpSally]

My child's school has just moved into a new trust. Clearly it's one of those trusts as the latest email announces how children will be placed in internal exclusion or be suspended if they dare to wear a coat in the building or take their blazer off without asking permission.

Schools consistently moan about funding, there's a teaching retention crisis, teachers are overworked and leaving in their hoards, TAs are underpaid and in short supply, children's mental health is worse than ever, but somehow there's time and money to dish out internal exclusions if child gets hot and dares takes their blazer off without asking?

Aibu to say schools should try focussing their time, attention and money on the real issues instead of nonsense made up ones?
^

@SockFluffInTheBath my secondary school had several different buildings. One was 1950s built and had massive windows. Some classrooms had windows on both sides so when it was sunny it was like being in a greenhouse. One room used for maths frequently had people dozing off in the afternoon lessons because it was so warm (including my maths teacher once 😂).
The school has had a lot of changes now but that building is still used.
I wonder what level of sleepyheads there are these days -.especially as now they are in blazers and ties where as my generation were frequently just in short sleeve shirts (and the generation before us when it was a girls secondary modern got to wear lightweight cotton dresses).

But he doesn’t have to be hot. He’s not forbidden from removing his blazer. He just needs to ask. So maybe part of your teaching should include that he should feel confident enough to just ask the question so he isn’t sitting there unnecessarily hot.

i can't stand hearing from a Head of Year that they've just fielded 15 phone calls from angry parents about blazers when we know we need to deal with a child scared to go home tonight because dad keeps beating the shit out of mum. It's trivial. Stop taking up our time so we can help the kids who need to be helped.

well that's exactly my point. Having unnecessary rules just creates more work for staff when their time and energy is better focused elsewhere.

Till I read your last paragraph, I seriously wondered if you have been in a school recently. In a properly run school, the chances of malevolent strangers sneaking in is minimal; since Dunblane, schools they really are very tight about security. They don't wave every stranger through just because they're wearing a blazer. Conversely, you do not see reports of children regularly being attacked by intruding strangers in schools that don't have blazers.

Lovely that your teachers take a sensible approach. The problem is that there are some that don't, and some head teachers who won't even allow teachers that discretion. Do you think that is acceptable?

There are many, many posts saying that insisting that <insert uniform rule> is adhered to is “about control”, as though this is a bad thing.

Try going into a school where there is no control.

Now make it a large secondary, which has upwards of 1000 children. Or, in some cases, 2000.

Sweating the small stuff (apologies for the slight hot weather blazer on) is critical, unless you want a school to descend into chaos.

I’ve worked in schools where rules weren’t followed up. It was, at times, really dangerous.

Argue the case for having a less formal uniform for sure - or no uniform, but that comes with a host of its own issues - but if the rule is there, it has to be followed consistently.

The blazer rule is ‘stupid’ on the surface, but there will be a reason for it that the Head and Governors thought was worthwhile. In my experience the vast majority of teachers actually like working with their students and aren’t there for some shitty power kick about blazer rules.

Actually, OP will be that mum that sensible teachers secretly support, particularly as they write their resignation letters from schools with silly rules like this.

*pun 🙄

The problem is that some teachers arbitrarily refuse permission.

And some children have communication disorders that mean they can’t “just learn” to ask.

And a hot child isn’t one that’s going to learn effectively so it’s just a mess all round.

You’ll find that it isn’t compulsory but encouraged In Scotland to wear the school uniform even in the 90s too

We're also arguing here that kids have to ask to take their blazers off like the teachers are always going to say no you can't. Most - and it is very much a majority - will say yes. I never say no - even on a day like today when I've had Year 8 boys playing basketball all lunch so they're boiling but the undertone around school is far from warm. I don't know any of my colleagues who say no

@Pickledpoppetpickle, in that case, how does it help you to have this rule at all? Wouldn't you be better off not having to deal with this particular issue and leaving it to your pupils to make their own decisions?

It’s the rules of the school and if you don’t like it then you can move your child to a different school. Most parents understand and appreciate the need for asking for permission so if it’s not in tune with your beliefs then vote with your feet.

They do it because it's now entrenched in British culture.

Given that that crop are the product of schools that have been enforcing rules like this, maybe it is the rules that are wrong? I didn't have any rules like this and managed to cope with the workplace and workplace rules without any difficulty at all.

Wow!!! That sounds like the headteacher is a great fan of George Orwell (1984)?! 🙄
It's like something out of a 1970's sci-fi movie or a John Wyndham book (Day of the Triffids or The Midwich Cuckoos)?! 😱

Some children have communication problems, and some children don’t mind the rules, and some children do. There’s literally hundreds of children in a school and the school can’t accommodate every child’s wants.

How does making a teacher enforce silly rules around when a student can take a blazer off help them in any way to teach?

Smith! 6076 Smith W! You're not bending low enough to satisfy the physical jerks instructor ....

No, it demonstrates nothing of the sort. Witness the fact that other countries manage absolutely fine without.

Did you know that at least one of the schools that gets the best exam results in the country has no uniform? Does that suggest that uniform is necessary?

Maybe because your parents enforced rules and boundaries at home. Unfortunately some parents don’t, so the school is left to mould the child into functioning adults, which sometimes means pushing the fact that all through life there will be instructions and some form of rules. Without boundaries and rules society would be in a state of chaos and anarchy.

According to people on this thread, that will make me "that" parent and teachers will hate me and the head will demand I send him somewhere else. I would love to think that schools would concede the lack of logic in these rules, but there's little sign of it currently.

Also, shouldn't we teach kids that the purpose of clothes is functional, I.e..clothes are there to make you feel comfortable and keep you healthy (warm, dry, clean, etc)? Kids shouldn't learn that clothes make some sort of statement and using their uniform purely to teach them obedience makes a statement.

Besides, kids should learn that feeling comfortable is important and if they aren't comfortable and that includes their body not being comfortable then they should speak up. If a school said that all kids should wear high heels or pointy shoes would you go along with it? I'd argue that a blazer can make you very uncomfortable similar to silly footwear.

Oh, FFS, no-one on this thread is arguing that there should be no control or rules in schools. All we are asking for is sensible controls and rules. I really struggle to see what is so unreasonable about that.

What should he do if the teacher says no?

And why should he have to ask at all? We don't make primary schoolchildren ask, we don't make college students ask, we don't (except in limited occupations for very good reasons) make adults ask. Why are secondary school children the only ones who are apparently not trusted to know when they are too hot or too cold?

What reason? I've yet to hear one over the several years this has been an issue. Yes, most teachers are sensible. Why should children suffer unnecessarily at the hands of those that are not, and why should non-sensible teachers be facilitated by having power over silly things like whether their pupils can regulate their own heat?