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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think Elon Musk has gone nuts

1000 replies

Viviennemary · 06/01/2025 18:15

What on earth is going on with him. Calling for Nagel Farage to resign. Now wanting the PM to resign amd said we have a tyrannical government. It's all a bit odd.

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28
noblegiraffe · 07/01/2025 21:44

^I feel sorry for Jess, she seems like a nice woman who is trying her best^

This patronising put-down of a woman who is in fear for her life despite having worked for years to support women and girls who have experienced violence has made me feel pretty angry, particularly when it is followed up with a 'But...'. Perhaps I should reflect on why words on a screen have made me feel like this, and how they have made me form a particularly negative judgement of the person writing them.

FennelPotion · 07/01/2025 21:45

Feelingathomenow · 07/01/2025 21:21

Thanks that’s helpful. Unfortunately, those in power have always been a target for those who disagree with them, you can trace this back millennia.

What this really brings to light is the power we have given social media and that is down to us all. Our family reading nights currently consist of Ian Lucas “Digital Gangster”. It’s so important to educate our children about the way social media manipulates. At 12 my son understands the way news is manipulated, he understands the importance of books on shelves rather than the cloud. He understands that throughout history there have been manipulators
and that the existence of these people will continue for as long as humanity does.

No one should feel threatened by the actions or words of another, but this has long been a consequence of human groups. We are hierarchical in nature, we are not all equal and some will always use whatever means to get to the top. Technology is making this more and more relevant as it infiltrates our homes.

If our Government somehow shuts down Elon Musk, another wanna be global leader will arise. They do that and a power vacuum rarely leads to an improved local dictator - keep an eye on Syria for that. The floodgates are open on how we receive information, if you control the flow of information you can control reality for a lot of people. You won’t stop the power hungry. The only thing you can do is teach citizens self defence. By that I mean, critical thinking, being able to research without the use of the internet (and fuck Chat Gp or whatever it’s called and the like - it doesn’t research it advertises and brainwashes). Looking at things in multiple ways, understanding paradoxes, understanding nuance. Screw the obsession with Stem subjects - bring the 7 liberal arts to the forefront of every school curriculum. Humans are adaptable, we need to adapt to the fact tech is dangerous more than helpful. It is a weapon. We need to learn to defend ourselves. Tech is a threat to democracy, but there’s no shoving that car back in the bag I’m afraid. Democracies need to respond to survive.

I feel sorry for Jess, she seems like a nice woman who is trying her best (although I don’t agree with her decision that is a seperate issue), and she must be scared. But shutting down free speech is not the answer, who decides what is allowed and not allowed? Look at Mark Zuckerbergs comments and actions today to see how politically driven this distinction is.

We need to act now to ensure that this virus that is social media (which will be exploited by every megalomaniac going forevermore) is limited in its effect by shoring up societies defences. Tech is only the friend of the person getting an advantage from it we need to ensure it is serving us.

We need to address the situations people are in that leave them vulnerable to every passing messiah and that includes real honesty, however uncomfortable of the experiences people are facing. This is right across the spectrum from young Muslims dragged into the death cult that is Isis, to white men finally feeling understood by the likes ofTommy Robinson.

The first step towards that is to stop being so divided. Look how we have slowly been manipulated into choosing sides, to vilifying anyone who doesn’t think like us, doesn’t put an X in the same place on a ballot sheet. Tory, Labour they’re just the same, slightly different accents, and coloured ties:blouses. It’s a waste of energy arguing over who tinkers with the same system best. It’s a tactic as old as time, divide and conquer. Ignore Musk et al and the divisions they cause, they’re just version 1.0 of the people who will use technology to create empires. Why take a wild black horse gather troops and march across continents when you can sit at your desk - build your own library in your new city and gather all the information of humanity in it. look at working with others, look at different perspectives, be honest about problems by understanding the problem in preference to defending your own position,

Edited

👏👏👏
One of the few intelligent, insightful and honest posts on this thread, thank you, many will appreciate it. Ignore the posters who are honing in on one single sentence to bluntly try and push their narrow point, yet ignore the rest of your comprehensive and intelligent post. Thank you for the recommendation, I'll be looking at Digital Gangsters: The Inside Story of how Greed, Lies and Technology broke Democracy.

noblegiraffe · 07/01/2025 21:46

BaseXz · 07/01/2025 21:43

MNHQ have just deleted my post in support of Elon Musk. No idea why - as it was short and polite and didn’t break any guidelines that I could see, plus it got two upvotes. I‘be always believed that censorship by the blob extends to MNHQ, but then it always has. I also believe they put the “hate Musk” thread in “trending” deliberately.

You can report your post and ask MNHQ to explain which rules it broke.

We don't have upvotes on MN btw.

Feelingathomenow · 07/01/2025 21:47

cardibach · 07/01/2025 21:34

You said we shouldn’t shut Musk down. That’s what he said. So either you think it’s ok for him to say it or it’s ok to shut him down when he says stuff like that. Which is it?

This is the problem, you think there are only two answers to that question. It, like nearly everything, is far more complex. Firstly, it would likely be impossible to shut Musk down. If we did somehow do that, it’s likely someone else would rise in his place, their views might be more extreme. Secondly, if you did manage to shut Musk down, who are you going to shut down next, who gets to decide who is shut down and why? That is very dangerous territory.

It’s like the well known philosophical question. Would you kill baby Hitler. The knee jerk reaction is often yes. But thinking more deeply you start to get into questions like does that cross a line where you say your own politics makes it ok to kill babies - even Hitler was innocent as a baby. If you kill Hitler will someone even worse (and more successful in war) come to power? Is it better to let Hitler live and change the allies response to Germany after WW2 and hope that leaves Hitler a mad man shouting into the void. There’s some many answers to this question.

We need to move away from the binary thinking in your post if anything is going to be solved.

Gtfto2024 · 07/01/2025 21:51

I feel sorry for Jess, she seems like a nice woman who is trying her best (although I don’t agree with her decision that is a seperate issue), and she must be scared. But shutting down free speech is not the answer, who decides what is allowed and not allowed?

But it's OK for Musk to use free speech with no responsibility to incite this fear? You would rather patronise a strong woman who has fought for rights for others, and belittle her than concede that Musk is inciting that fear. You still maintain that it is OK for this man to instill fear in a woman?

TheBroonOneAndTheWhiteOne · 07/01/2025 21:52

BaseXz · 07/01/2025 21:43

MNHQ have just deleted my post in support of Elon Musk. No idea why - as it was short and polite and didn’t break any guidelines that I could see, plus it got two upvotes. I‘be always believed that censorship by the blob extends to MNHQ, but then it always has. I also believe they put the “hate Musk” thread in “trending” deliberately.

We don't have upvotes on MN. That's Reddit.

Anyway. You can email MNHQ and ask them which of the TGs your post contravened.

cardibach · 07/01/2025 21:54

Feelingathomenow · 07/01/2025 21:47

This is the problem, you think there are only two answers to that question. It, like nearly everything, is far more complex. Firstly, it would likely be impossible to shut Musk down. If we did somehow do that, it’s likely someone else would rise in his place, their views might be more extreme. Secondly, if you did manage to shut Musk down, who are you going to shut down next, who gets to decide who is shut down and why? That is very dangerous territory.

It’s like the well known philosophical question. Would you kill baby Hitler. The knee jerk reaction is often yes. But thinking more deeply you start to get into questions like does that cross a line where you say your own politics makes it ok to kill babies - even Hitler was innocent as a baby. If you kill Hitler will someone even worse (and more successful in war) come to power? Is it better to let Hitler live and change the allies response to Germany after WW2 and hope that leaves Hitler a mad man shouting into the void. There’s some many answers to this question.

We need to move away from the binary thinking in your post if anything is going to be solved.

You said we shouldn’t try. That he should be allowed to say what he likes. There’s no grey area here. Is it ok for him to call her a rape genocide apologist (whatever the fuck that means anyway) or not?

FennelPotion · 07/01/2025 21:56

Feelingathomenow · 07/01/2025 21:47

This is the problem, you think there are only two answers to that question. It, like nearly everything, is far more complex. Firstly, it would likely be impossible to shut Musk down. If we did somehow do that, it’s likely someone else would rise in his place, their views might be more extreme. Secondly, if you did manage to shut Musk down, who are you going to shut down next, who gets to decide who is shut down and why? That is very dangerous territory.

It’s like the well known philosophical question. Would you kill baby Hitler. The knee jerk reaction is often yes. But thinking more deeply you start to get into questions like does that cross a line where you say your own politics makes it ok to kill babies - even Hitler was innocent as a baby. If you kill Hitler will someone even worse (and more successful in war) come to power? Is it better to let Hitler live and change the allies response to Germany after WW2 and hope that leaves Hitler a mad man shouting into the void. There’s some many answers to this question.

We need to move away from the binary thinking in your post if anything is going to be solved.

Agree💯.

It’s disappointing to see Starmer succumb to divisive rhetoric and populism. Instead of maintaining composure and focusing on unity, he lashed out. As Prime Minister he should be setting a higher standard. Unfortunately, he's not the only politician falling short, but given his position, this is particularly concerning. We need representatives and leaders who are not only competent and smart, but also capable of working constructively in the complex landscape we find ourselves in. Starmer's behaviour doesn’t inspire confidence for the challenges ahead.

Feelingathomenow · 07/01/2025 21:56

FennelPotion · 07/01/2025 21:45

👏👏👏
One of the few intelligent, insightful and honest posts on this thread, thank you, many will appreciate it. Ignore the posters who are honing in on one single sentence to bluntly try and push their narrow point, yet ignore the rest of your comprehensive and intelligent post. Thank you for the recommendation, I'll be looking at Digital Gangsters: The Inside Story of how Greed, Lies and Technology broke Democracy.

Thank you, I highly recommend a family reading night, a gathering to discuss topics, stories etc. it’s what humans have done for thousands of years, we’re so divided these days.

noblegiraffe · 07/01/2025 21:58

It’s disappointing to see Starmer succumb to divisive rhetoric and populism.

Er, what? Did you mean to write Musk?

cardibach · 07/01/2025 21:58

FennelPotion · 07/01/2025 21:56

Agree💯.

It’s disappointing to see Starmer succumb to divisive rhetoric and populism. Instead of maintaining composure and focusing on unity, he lashed out. As Prime Minister he should be setting a higher standard. Unfortunately, he's not the only politician falling short, but given his position, this is particularly concerning. We need representatives and leaders who are not only competent and smart, but also capable of working constructively in the complex landscape we find ourselves in. Starmer's behaviour doesn’t inspire confidence for the challenges ahead.

Starmer lashed out? Don’t be silly. He was very measured. I don’t think anyone can work constructively with Musk (and probably not Trump either) they are too self centred.

Feelingathomenow · 07/01/2025 22:01

cardibach · 07/01/2025 21:54

You said we shouldn’t try. That he should be allowed to say what he likes. There’s no grey area here. Is it ok for him to call her a rape genocide apologist (whatever the fuck that means anyway) or not?

Again you are obsessed with binary thinking. My answer is as I set out before because you are asking the same question. Whilst you keep asking the same question my answer will, of course remain the same..I’m sorry you’re not getting the answer you want. Consider why you’re so desperate to get an answer on your own terms rather than the one that’s authentic for me.

TheBroonOneAndTheWhiteOne · 07/01/2025 22:02

FennelPotion · 07/01/2025 21:56

Agree💯.

It’s disappointing to see Starmer succumb to divisive rhetoric and populism. Instead of maintaining composure and focusing on unity, he lashed out. As Prime Minister he should be setting a higher standard. Unfortunately, he's not the only politician falling short, but given his position, this is particularly concerning. We need representatives and leaders who are not only competent and smart, but also capable of working constructively in the complex landscape we find ourselves in. Starmer's behaviour doesn’t inspire confidence for the challenges ahead.

Starmer is the most intelligent and insightful PM we've had for years in this country.
He has the most integrity, too.
I'm so bored of seeing posts on here, tearing him apart.

BIossomtoes · 07/01/2025 22:03

noblegiraffe · 07/01/2025 21:44

^I feel sorry for Jess, she seems like a nice woman who is trying her best^

This patronising put-down of a woman who is in fear for her life despite having worked for years to support women and girls who have experienced violence has made me feel pretty angry, particularly when it is followed up with a 'But...'. Perhaps I should reflect on why words on a screen have made me feel like this, and how they have made me form a particularly negative judgement of the person writing them.

You’re not alone if that’s any consolation. I find it astounding that any woman could come out with this patronising faint praise for someone who has devoted their life to supporting the most vulnerable women in our society.

FennelPotion · 07/01/2025 22:03

OMFG who's this @Gtfto2024 poster who's putting all these laughing emojies on genuine posts written in good faith?! It's so puerile. Mumsnet needs to tackle that, it's not a helpful tool and undermines any debate.

Now why would Gtfto2024 want to stifle this discussion?

Feelingathomenow · 07/01/2025 22:08

BIossomtoes · 07/01/2025 22:03

You’re not alone if that’s any consolation. I find it astounding that any woman could come out with this patronising faint praise for someone who has devoted their life to supporting the most vulnerable women in our society.

Oh dear, I’m sorry if you find saying someone is nice and is trying their best condescending. Maybe you’re seeing what you want to see rather than what is actually there. Do you not think this woman is nice? Do you not feel she is trying her best? Because surely in the binary world the only other option is she is a nasty woman not trying very hard. I assume that’s what you mean by your rejection of my description.

BIossomtoes · 07/01/2025 22:08

FennelPotion · 07/01/2025 22:03

OMFG who's this @Gtfto2024 poster who's putting all these laughing emojies on genuine posts written in good faith?! It's so puerile. Mumsnet needs to tackle that, it's not a helpful tool and undermines any debate.

Now why would Gtfto2024 want to stifle this discussion?

You don’t seem to like it here very much. This discussion is about to end anyway as the thread’s almost full.

Feelingathomenow · 07/01/2025 22:10

BIossomtoes · 07/01/2025 22:08

You don’t seem to like it here very much. This discussion is about to end anyway as the thread’s almost full.

Ah the laughing emoji, always a sign of erudition.

BIossomtoes · 07/01/2025 22:12

Feelingathomenow · 07/01/2025 22:08

Oh dear, I’m sorry if you find saying someone is nice and is trying their best condescending. Maybe you’re seeing what you want to see rather than what is actually there. Do you not think this woman is nice? Do you not feel she is trying her best? Because surely in the binary world the only other option is she is a nasty woman not trying very hard. I assume that’s what you mean by your rejection of my description.

No she isn’t “nice” and “doing her best” which implies her best isn’t good enough. She’s a strong feminist politician who has supported and fought for vulnerable women all her adult life and she deserves better than damning with faint praise and patronising condescension. We don’t live in a binary world.

noblegiraffe · 07/01/2025 22:13

FennelPotion · 07/01/2025 22:03

OMFG who's this @Gtfto2024 poster who's putting all these laughing emojies on genuine posts written in good faith?! It's so puerile. Mumsnet needs to tackle that, it's not a helpful tool and undermines any debate.

Now why would Gtfto2024 want to stifle this discussion?

The only person who can see them is you by the way.

If Jess Phillips can rise above 'rape genocide apologist' perhaps you can try your best to ignore the laughing face emoji?

Or report to MNHQ, of course.

Feelingathomenow · 07/01/2025 22:16

TheBroonOneAndTheWhiteOne · 07/01/2025 22:02

Starmer is the most intelligent and insightful PM we've had for years in this country.
He has the most integrity, too.
I'm so bored of seeing posts on here, tearing him apart.

Unlikely, only a certain type of person gets to be PM. They generally don’t have many positive traits. This is the man who claimed he wouldn’t use private health care to save a family member but took free luxury accommodation so-his son could revise for his GCSEs

Feelingathomenow · 07/01/2025 22:16

noblegiraffe · 07/01/2025 22:13

The only person who can see them is you by the way.

If Jess Phillips can rise above 'rape genocide apologist' perhaps you can try your best to ignore the laughing face emoji?

Or report to MNHQ, of course.

I can see them.

cardibach · 07/01/2025 22:17

Feelingathomenow · 07/01/2025 22:01

Again you are obsessed with binary thinking. My answer is as I set out before because you are asking the same question. Whilst you keep asking the same question my answer will, of course remain the same..I’m sorry you’re not getting the answer you want. Consider why you’re so desperate to get an answer on your own terms rather than the one that’s authentic for me.

Edited

Some issues are binary. Is it ok to say someone who has worked tirelessly in relation to VAWG (or someone who hadn’t, actually) is a rape genocide apologist or not?

FennelPotion · 07/01/2025 22:17

Feelingathomenow · 07/01/2025 22:01

Again you are obsessed with binary thinking. My answer is as I set out before because you are asking the same question. Whilst you keep asking the same question my answer will, of course remain the same..I’m sorry you’re not getting the answer you want. Consider why you’re so desperate to get an answer on your own terms rather than the one that’s authentic for me.

Edited

Agree with the binary thinking. It was the same with Brexit. Those who existed only in their cosy echo chambers never saw it coming. It's ideological blinkers and an inability to view complex things from a range of angles and try to understand different viewpoints. As a passionate Remainer, I was disappointed that Labour supported Leave, only the Lib Dems campaigned for Remain. Even though I strongly supported staying in the EU, I still tried to understand the concerns of Leavers, even if I didn’t agree with them.

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