Should I hit 'send'?

[Journeyintomelody]

YABU - dont do it!!!
YANBU - do it

Context: I have a 10 month old DD. Father was abusive . I received support to leave when I was pregnant. He has not acknowledged birth and has not paid any child maintenance. His salary is £55,000 pa. He has approx £900,000 in assets (private pension, savings, and house). He has two children now at university who don't live with him. He has a financial advisor and is has legal connections (best buddies with a very good solicitor)
I am paying myself £500 a month to get through maternity leave excluding housing but including everything else (eg. Food, clothing, toiletries, cleaning supplies, everything for DD)

Message:
"It's been 10 months and child maintenance arrangements have yet to be agreed. Based on your salary and circumstances CMS estimates are:
£118.93 a week or £514.97 a month.

I suggest that an acceptable arrangement would be for you to set up a standing order for £500 per month into my account titled child maintenance.

If you do not pay an acceptable amount of child maintenance voluntarily, which is a legal requirement, I will contact CMS at the end of the month, who will take into account all taxable income and take the money directly from your salary. (Note this option comes with an additional 20% charge each month). "

To not drip feed: please don't say go straight to CMS. I have decided not to do this for several reasons which I won't go into now. My question is does this message sound ok? How should I initiate the discussion. We have had no contact for a year. He was told not to contact me by employer whilst he was under investigation for sexual misconduct. I believe this process has now concluded.

Thank you. I'm stressing out here!

Have to agree with PP, from what you’ve said it makes more sense financially to pay off your debts and claim UC. You can keep £5999 in the bank for security - lots of people don’t have nearly that much of a buffer! - and get all you’re entitled to.
I appreciate the safety net seems important after suffering a trauma but logically this solution makes more sense long term and you don’t need to contact your abuser.

I think you are combining completely separate issues here. I will try to clarify for you:
Firstly, definitely don't send the message.
Secondly, you don't have proof of paternity. CMS would require this if you applied and he disputed via dna test he would have to pay for.
Thirdly, yes, income is the baseline for CMS calculation. So if you applied now the income would be as declared to HMRC in the 2023-4 financial year and used to determine payments for the next 12 months. Yes, he could give up his job and apply to have the payments reduced if his income went down by more than 25%. Many men in this situation take steps to avoid employment and drastically reduce their income.But as you get nothing now you'd be no worse off and his income would be kept under annual review by CMS until your child is 16.
Fourthly, child maintenance and contact are completely separate processes. If he wants contact and you don't he'd have to go through the Family Court. The court social worker will look closely at any safeguarding issues and he could get no contact or supervised contact only if there was evidence of issues.
Hope that helps, good luck with it all

Also @Journeyintomelody apologies for assuming you were student age. It's what you would naturally assume by your references to the fact this man dates 18yr olds and you're calling the money the university refunded you for your tuition fees his hush money.

You are a mature student, who has run up debts well before meeting him.

You can't keep money in the bank and call it "not mine" because the debts you've got very much are yours, and it's your debt repayment money.

You're keeping money that you should be paying off your debts with in the bank for absolutely no reason, in order to diddle yourself out of the benefits you need to live on. Then saying it's because you've got no money you need to ask this man to pay you.

I thought you were essentially a teenager, so weren't aware of all this.

As much as you don't want to go into your finances, you may find the answers you'll get would stop the need to contact this man for £500 a month.

From my limited understanding, in your circumstances, UC will give you far more than that a month.

Unless you're keeping a lump sum for a house deposit in 14 months time when you get a job, you're going to be better off paying off your debts and living off more than £125 a week, which formula and nappies must be taking a huge chunk.

Look, you need support. There are some very wise mumsnetters that have experience. Let them help you.

At worst you can ignore what everyone comes up with. It's not legally binding 😜

I don't want to go into my finances on this thread. But I absolutely hear people's advice that they can be managed better. There is A LOT to work out. Debts aren't from a credit card. Interest rate is below savings interest. I could wipe out all debt tomorrow but it would leave me with practically nothing. I'd then be eligible for UC, but how would I get accommodation, deposit, etc? Having the cash gives me options. I will pay off the debt as soon as I have a salary (hopefully within the next 6 months). I would not get housing element of UC until I actually have a place. But finding somewhere to live without a deposit whilst on benefits is not a situation I want to be in.

But how are you going to find a place to rent without a job?

Where are you living now?

So many useless / dangerous ‘fathers’ get access to their children and make everyone’s life hell. The judges in family courts seem to allow it despite evidence they shouldn’t have access.

Id keep away from him as much as possible. It’s sad but it’s reality of our legal system (should he decide to eg. Go 50/50 on the basis he doesn’t want to pay you anything). x

Why are you casting doubt on what she's saying? She's come here for advice, not to have you say "if".

But you're renting somewhere now?

Why are you suddenly homeless by paying off debt?

Have you not spent 5 minutes googling how this all works before looking at contacting this man as the first port of call?

I didnt run up debt before meeting him. It was during. To speak more about it would likely be outing.

UC gives about 600 ish so not much more as I wouldn't get housing element.

I'm going back to work in approx 6 months. (DD is 10 months now)

I waiting before paying my debt until I know what my salary will be, so that I can afford the first two months of nursery fees etc. I have got a vague plan.

That said. CMS would make a massive difference for DD.

It might be worth speaking to a debt management company, via Citizens advice, or is it Step Change, who are often recommended. They may be able to help you to consolidate all the debts so that you just pay a minimum amount monthly, which would help you look at that lump sum differently, so for example, keeping an amount aside as savings, but paying yourself enough to get by at the moment, whilst still addressing the debt.

Universal credit dont expect you to live in poverty - so as you say, you could have blown it all, and yes, they would have accused you of depriving yourself of assets, but similarly, if you have spent it reasonably to support yourself and your daughter, then they are not going to judge that against you when you hit the £16K threshold to enable a top up.

again, pop a few figures in the 'entitled to' website and see what comes out.

as for that bastard. I would keep as you are - away from him, away from any contact. Yes its absolutely rage indicing that he is sitting pretty while you are literally left holding the baby, but sadly thats the absolute way of the bastard male run world. The rage and resentment will only eat you up if you let it fester, and his previous behaviour will make it, understandably, worse. The best thing you can do is see if you can access some support to help you move through and beyond this, to grow into the absolute best mum for your little girl, and to leave him behind.

Good Advice above.

Universal credit pays your nursery.

OP let’s pretend you have £20k in savings and £10k debt.

Right now, you are not paying off your debts and you’re using your savings with no income.

In 12 months time, you will have a lot more debt and a lot less savings.

Now let’s say you cleared the £10k debt.
You’d still have £10k in savings but you’d also be getting UC, which depending on your circumstances and cost of rent etc could be about £1k if you’re not working.

So in 12 months time, you would have no debt, still have £10k in savings + about £12k in UC payments.

So by using your savings to clear your debts, you would actually financially be WAY better off.
You would have more money.

I definitely wouldn’t advise using all of the savings.
I think you’re sensible to have money available for emergencies.

If the interest of your debts is low then I would spend most of your savings on the things you need first and then your debts.

Ultimately, you need to get rid of some of your savings so you can get UC top ups.
Not by wasting them but by using it for the things that need to be paid off.

This

This is a man who has been getting away with a lot of things for a long time. I doubt he will read you message and think 'oh I'll just pay up and that's that'. I also don't think he will take well to be being threatened or might well see it for what it is, an empty threat. After all, if you were going to go through CMS, why haven't you?

He is a dangerous man. Right now you are skint but safe. Honestly, the most likely outcome I can see for contacting him is still skint but now living in fear of him tracking you down, requesting contact etc.

I would say try and speak to as many different agencies and services as possible for advice and support:
Women's aid; shelter; citizens advice; debt management etc etc plus utilise food banks/baby banks etc.

Is there a way you can pay some of the debt down to get you below the threshold for UC?
Don't pay off all of the debt and leave yourself with some savings in background. Take some out as cash for the things you need as you'll need clothes/shoes soon.

Then contact remaining creditors and agree a reduced payment plan. They will agree when you explain limited income with a dependent. It won't be good for your credit report but if you have housing you might not need credit for 6 years anyway. Easier to rebuild a relationship with creditors in future than this monster.

OP you sound amazing- you have everything you need to support your daughter. Love, determination and intelligence.

Forget about justice, maintenance, CMS. The system is shit and you won’t change it. What you can change is life for your family. All the headspace you are spending on this conundrum, spend on your career instead. Pick a well paying career and work out a plan for getting into it. In a few short years you could be really comfortable.

UC gives about 600 ish so not much more as I wouldn't get housing element.

But it won’t be coming out of your savings!!

You are losing money right now because you still have the same amount of debt, you’re just missing out on £600 a month and using your savings just to live.

If the cms would make such a big difference to DD, then I don’t understand why you’re not giving yourself this money out of your savings.

Great advice here !!

Been reading full thread all morning.

Firstly OP you should be so proud of yourself for escaping this awful man and being such an amazing mother. It sounds like your daughter has had the best start in life despite you going through an awful time in pregnancy. It’s so hard to think straight when pregnant let alone do all you’ve done so well done and keep going.

You’ve already said you’re not going to send the message which I agree with. Loads of really good advice here re CMS from people who do have experience so I’m glad you’ve got a few different views. My only thing I would add is that you said this man is close to retirement age. I do not know the rules from CMS once someone retires (suspect means tested still?) but only say this as to say even if he doesn’t give up his job to in order to avoid CMS payments if he retires in a year or so anyway you may not benefit that much from his payments for the risk of someone you absolutely do not want anywhere near you or your child. As others have suggested as you have some decent savings perhaps having a rethink about how you manage these would give you some breathing space. I think it’s disgusting that people can have children and not be forced to pay what they should towards them but your situation is complex and whilst I fully understand and support your rage, if there is a way to do this without you “poking the nest” I think it’s best for you and your daughter.

Also agree he could apply at anytime to see daughter anyway but as hasn’t for so long and there is record of domestic abuse especially in pregnancy id hope social services would be v reluctant to allow unsupervised visits. It might be worthwhile speaking to someone from social services to see what would happen in this case if he did want access and how much you would be able to push back without having to pay a solicitor to at least give you an idea of what you’re dealing with.

You’re doing an amazing job despite being dealt some shitty cards. Well done for heeding some good advice. I’m wishing you all the best and know you will be ok x x

If the debt is student loan debt then just don't pay it. Ignore it. You might never be liable to repay it if your income doesn't get over threshold and it isn't a commercial interest rate anyway. Just spend the money on yourself and your baby now, leave your abuser well alone and you can pay the student debt back from income when/ if you are required to.

I didnt run up debt before meeting him. It was during. To speak more about it would likely be outing.

Irrelevant. You miss the point, you've run up personal debt that isn't tuition fees. Tuition fees you've have refunded. You've just overspent and got in debt.

UC gives about 600 ish so not much more as I wouldn't get housing element.

You are depleting your savings by £500 plus your rent every month, whilst accruing interest on personal debt. Whereas UC would pay your rent, plus your council tax, plus however many hundreds you're entitled too. And essentially all your nursery fees. Likely somewhere between £2-3k a month in total. So yes, it is much more. Oh and you get child benefit too. This shouldn't be brand new information.

I'm going back to work in approx 6 months. (DD is 10 months now)

Great, so sort your finances out now.

I waiting before paying my debt until I know what my salary will be, so that I can afford the first two months of nursery fees etc. I have got a vague plan.

Your plan is shooting yourself in the foot and you don't seem to want to hear otherwise. Say you've got £20k. Go and put a deposit on a rental place. Presumably you live with your parents and just them a little bit of board now, and call it rent. Let's say that leaves you with £17k. Pay £12k off your debt and put your UC claim in. Now.

That said. CMS would make a massive difference for DD.

Why is this all you seem to want to consider when it's so easy for you to claim thousands more with zero risk from UC?

If I were you I'd pay off debt and keep back under £6k.
You can then look to rent somewhere and receive the housing element from UC, and single person & child element.
Begin to prepare yourself for work and UC will pay childcare element on top.
You can get back on your feet.
For the safety of you & DD I would not be asking for maintenance - disappear and don't ever let him near you both.
Someone like stepchange can help with sorting your finances, and womens aid will also help.

If he thinks you need his money it gives him perceived power over you. You need to be smart. You have the benefit of both savings and time and you need ways to use both to pay back debts and access more benefits without involving him.

Read up on the Economic Abuse Evidence form to see if any of this applies to you. It's a way for people escaping abuse and suffering with resultant debt to disclose their experience to all creditors, so you don't have to do it all yourself. If any of the debt was caused by your abuser you might be able to get some or all of it wiped. It can also buy you more time to pay back when you are back in work. This is a real thing that banks are starting to sign up to. I don't know if any of your debt is related to your abuse but if it is then definitely do this. The creditors will then understand why you are not able to access child support.

https://survivingeconomicabuse.org/i-need-help/

You really aren't thinking clearly.