Are we being unreasonable to think she's being unreasonable

[jadeycakes666]

I am back from a late lunch with long standing friends. One of whom has recently split with husband of 19 years. She cheated on him with one of his friends. Her and husbands friend are not together and she and her husband tried for a while after she told him what had happened.

August last gone she messaged us all to say she had taken his keys and told him to get out as she couldn't stand him being so miserable. We were all slightly taken aback by the attitude seeing as she's the one who broke his heart but it's not our relationship so hey ho. We all have known her husband since they started dating and she asked that we all blank him from our lives.

When he left he stayed in hotels for a while and she told him he wasn't seeing the kids (3 of them) in a hotel until he had a stable home. He found one and she told us all she wasn't letting them go round as he didn't have enough furniture bar a sofa TV and beds for them.

She has told us herself that he has left her the house, the car and all furniture and electronics that he purchased in the house. They also had a joint account with around 22k in which she gleefully told us she had emptied and told him so and he has said no worries keep it for the kids. He also pays her £800 a month CM and sends the kids £50 Weekley for any treats etc they might ask of her so it doesn't dip into maintenance.

At Christmas she very smugly told us she was making him drop his kids presents two weeks early as she didn't see why he should be seeing them over Christmas as she was doing all the work with them, we asked how he was supposed to when she kept rejecting him asking to have them. She got annoyed.

Anyway today she has asked us all for lunch and told us she has served divorce papers and will be going for full spousal maintenance so he has no chance of getting himself on his feet and meeting anyone as he'll have to pay this on top of his voluntary maintenence. She found this really funny. She told us she's better off herself now as UC are paying a fair chunk of her housing fees.

Everyone kind of made a face and another friend sat back and told her she was being extremely insane considering the circumstances.

She stormed off after we settled the bill and has gone home and removed herself from the group chat.

She's behaving as if he cheated on her. Not that it would justify her behaviour but it would at least make sense of it. Why on earth does she want to destroy him? It doesn't make any sense rationally or emotionally. She sounds thoroughly nasty and he sounds like he needs to stand up for himself. I would definitely drop her.

This.

It really comes down to whether she’s a friend or not. If she’s a good friend you’ll presumably support her no matter what, rather than make judgements about her relationship decisions, when they don’t affect you and you may not be in possession of all the facts.

IMHO friends who abandon you, or distance themselves from you, when you make decisions they don’t approve of, especially without talking to you about it first, are ‘fair weather’ friends.

Most of us who’ve been through a relationship breakdown have been dropped by some people we thought were friends. Some appear to be uncomfortable about relationship breakdown and seem to prefer friends in couples. Some appear to find it awkward to know what to say, so they avoid you instead. Whatever the reason, some people stop getting in touch at the time you need them the most. It’s very painful. But it teaches you who your real friends are.

I know bereavement can have similar effects.

I do understand if you’re also friends with her ex, that makes it more difficult if you feel one of them’s acting unreasonably towards the other. Who were you friends with first: her or her ex? (you say you’ve known him since she started dating him, which suggests you knew her first). I’m no longer close friends with people who remain in touch with my ex, as he’s manipulative and milks them for information about me and revels in the fact they’re not being 100% loyal to me. I’m still in touch with them, but we’re no longer close.

If she was your friend originally and you value your friendship, and you only got to know her ex via her, I’d remain friends with her. But talk to her when it’s just the two of you. I’d let her know you’re always there for her, but you feel uncomfortable with her appearing to brag in a group setting about being so unreasonable to him when it was she who hastened the end of the relationship. There may be things she’s not telling you. She may have thought she had your unconditional support and what comes across as bragging is actually bravado: fighting talk at a very painful time while crumbling inside.

My ex was emotionally and financially abusive and controlling, but most ‘friends’ (e.g. couples we’d met via the kids) didn’t know that. It was hardly something I was going to broadcast when we have kids together. For a long time, it was painful and shameful to accept I’d been in an abusive relationship. The only friends who know the real story (and even then not every awful detail as I didn’t want to burden them with it all and it was so painful to talk about) turned out to be my genuine, good ones who talked to me one-on-one about it and kept checking on me.

The rest probably think I left him for someone else, so may think I had an affair. In fact, I’d ended our relationship three years previously after a great deal of mental health and domestic abuse support to get me to that point. I avoided him at home, but had to get my ducks in a row before I could leave with the kids (which he threatened to stop me doing). So, when I started seeing someone else, lots of people (who didn’t bother to ask) probably assumed I’d left my (apparently lovely) ex for someone new. When, in fact, I’d been single, lonely and isolated for many years and my new BF simply supported me with the final push of moving to a new home with my kids.

Regardless of friendships groups and opinions of those friends (neither person can make any friends behave in any particular way, are some of your group more aware of the dynamics of their relationship from her side?) and assuming this is true...

It's then the same advice regardless of whether the ex is male or female.
In this case, he needs to start being practical and quickly. He needs to educate himself on the LAW rather than what she wants or demands. He needs to understand the court process and stick to FACT not she said/he said. The starting point these days is a 50/50 split of everything and stop rolling over to keep the peace. Its a brutal process when either party simply wants to dish out hurt. Solicitors letters are brutal , you have to learn very quickly to respond to the FACTS only and not the dirt the other party pays them to write.

You also rarely attend court for the actual divorce, the decree nisi is literally a 5 minute rubber stamping exercise.

Maintenence should be the CMS rate, you don't win brownie points for paying over the top once it reaches the family court. He needs to have very clear in his mind that finances (house etc) and the children are not dealt with at the same hearing. There needs to be a clear letter written either by himself or a solicitor setting out what the child arrangements might be. If hes already not seeing the children there's not much more to be gained by placating her. Why has she withdrawn from mediation? Is she also now claimimg domestic violence? Without evidence based statements, that will not go well for her in court.

Most of all, divorce is based on FACT, courts don't give a damn about who did or said what, does she even know what the family court is really like? You spend the day in a room with solicitors going back and forth in the corridor seeing if they can get an agreement. Only when the other party takes up the stance that they are not going to budge and making ridiculous statements like the ex isn't allowed to see the children etc will it even be heard in front of a judge.
He needs to learn to process FACT and as so often is said here, gather the paperwork to prove it. If it's a joint account, that's a years worth of bank statements, making sure he has his wage slips printed off, proof of what she's said to him.
Solicitors will write what she's pays them to say, my pillock of an ex got them to write a statement about how he wanted to be a hands on father etc and I was apparently stopping him and i was apparently 'too disabled' to care for my son (discounting the fact that he broke both my legs) I had proof that he'd spent 6 months of each year swanning around various countries with his mates, so the judge pointed out that wasn't really hands on parenting. He even stated our son wasn't allowed to live in flat (which the judge openly laughed at as he'd made sure I wasnt on the deeds of the house) He thought he had 'won' as he was given every other weekend etc... but there were conditions written into the final order and when he actually stopped being gleeful for 5 minutes the court got to see exactly what I was dealing with when he smashed a door onto the hand of HIS barrister.
I digress, get practical now. Children aren't 'pay per view' and she can want all she likes, He needs to stand up for himself, his children and his legal rights, which any family solicitor can talk him through.
Oh and just to note, no friends/other parties are allowed in the actual hearing and would be stopped at the door (as my exs mother was) so he needn't concern himself on that even if anyone else shows up in the waiting room.
Let it go to court, self represent if necessary (though would suggest legal presence for the first hearing) and be prepared to answer questions FACTUALLY and actually answer the question being asked.
The financial hearing is a separate thing, but the decree absolute won't be granted until financial arrangements are sorted and courts favour a 'clean break'

Well done to the friend who spoke up. If I felt he was a good guy I would be going out of my way to help and support him. Tell him it's ok to go to war for his kids, they won't know he gave a damn otherwise. She's probably telling them he left and doesn't give a shit about them.

There's a mix from pp's of labelling him useless and not worthy of sympathy because he hasn't gone to war for his kids but as other pp's have said he may be trying not to rock the boat for their sake, he may be an emotionally beaten man that believes she will win, who knows.

My ex sil was seeing someone else whilst living in same house as husband and kids. Not exactly cheating as she had said she wanted out but had to stay married and in home for visa reasons. Told everyone all the time how useless and feckless husband was, relishing in sticking the knife in. Told people she was going to prevent him access to kids if he couldn't man up and pay for them ( she didn't mean a fair child maintenance she meant full rent, bills and other expenses). He didn't know she was seeing someone else whilst crying to everyone she was being financially abused as she had to use some of her own earnings for her expenses (cultural background differences). A lot of men are shit but so are some women.

Your friend might think she is being really clever but she obviously knows nothing about divorce law

The £22k she took was a joint savings (after they split) she was entitled to £11k anyway

The other £11k will just come off her percentage of the marital pot and have to be repayed

Keeping dc from their father is going to come back and bite her
Judges will read it as parental alienation and whilst she might have been able to argue for EOW, it is more than likely going to be 50/50 custody with no CM paid

The very idea that someone on £50k is going to be able to run 2 households is laughable

Spousal maintenance is the preserve of the very rich and very high earners

Your friend is not only nasty but a fool as well and her plans are going to fall apart.

I would start to put distance between you because the fall out when she realises that what she wants ain’t happening is going to be huge

She can run away and block everyone but it doesn’t change reality

I would really question whether she should be in charge of children if she believes these fantasies she has created in her own mind of what she believes is going to happen

Just to add that spousal maintenance (unlikely to be paid anyway) counts as income against universal credit (UC). So if he pays £250 a month, she just loses that same amount from UC.
That doesn't happen with Child Maintenance.

Yes I know. I meant it's very odd their so wealthy and dont have a mortgage

Definitely not a woman I'd want to be friends with. What a spiteful cow.

What an absolute cunt. Be kind to the ex husband.

She's a full b1tch.

Her poor kids, its those children who will be worst off for missing their dad. I hope he fights this all the way and actually if I were you I'd reach out to him as he sounds like a better human and friend

So why are you friends with this vile individual? I can now see how people surround themselves with yes people.

I personally couldn't stoop low enough to go and have lunch with her. In fact when she asked me to blank him from my life i would have told her a few home truths and my parting words would have been " fuck off tart, don't contact me again"

What a total cow. I couldn't be friends with someone like that.

What an absolute bitch. She would be an ex friend if she were in my life.

You can declare it for her. Whistle-blow.

Firstly the husband needs a kick up the arse and he needs to put her in her place, secondly, anyone who remains friends with that deserves everything they get if she can do that to her husband she wouldn't think twice about you or yours. Get rid!

Unfortunately yes, partner had to pay his exwife it for years, does depend on whether you’ve worked throughout the marriage or not

Spousal maintenance in vanishingly rare in the UK and unheard of unless one party is a very high earner. So she’s deluded and in for a shock if it’s 50/50.

But can't really verify any of this. None of it maybe true. There's a whole load of hating on here about someone you've never met and facts you can verify?

Cant veryfy...*

Wow, she sounds horrible. I'd be distancing myself from her and checking that the husband is OK. This sort of nastiness is totally abhorrent.

Yes, it does exist in the UK.

Easy to say but firstly, does he have the money for legal support and secondly, even with legal support, the law heavily favours women in relationship breakups.

We had a chat with the chap yesterday. I told him what she had told me and he clarified a few things.

He really isn't a nasty guy, just trying to placate the situation by trying to be as amicable as possible. He did tell us his ex wife has been speaking in front of his girls about him (seems his SIL also has a massive issue with her sisters behaviour) and has also been giving him information. They have a council house which is why they never bought anywhere and he has just signed the house over to her so as not to unsettle the kids. Money was not in a joint bank account, but in his name and he has documented that she took it all- even though he wanted the girls to have it for maintenance and it wasn't a thing to him. He was also overpaying just to make sure the kids had the same amount as when he was in the house with them.

He is just very upset as is the rest of the friend group as we didn't think she was like this. It's just knocked him for six with the cheating with his mate originally and the sheer hatred she's showing him after what he thought were 19 happy years. We have said we will support him with any help that he needs to see the kids.

Just an example he told us- apparently last time he saw the girls one of them was really upset leaving with him and he asked why- she said mum said you have moved to a scary house- so he was obviously trying to show her it wasn't scary- but she was already terrified and crying so he didn't want to force his 6 year old to stay somewhere when she was in such a state- so was forced to drop her home as he didn't want her being that distressed. Another example he gave was that they had terrapins (that he looked after in the house). On another talk with them they asked him where they were and he said at your house? They both told him he was lying and mum told them he had taken them- he said he didn't even know what to say. He found out from SIL she has sold them, but told the girls he took them away with him so they couldn't see them anymore.

I am cutting ties with her now as she is vile.