Absolutely shit scared about the future in the UK?

[JDNCh]

Name changed - I’m genuinely terrified by the hate, division and atmosphere here right now, online and spilling over on the ‘the real world’. I’m scared by how quickly things are changing, and just how much influence the US/Elon Musk/Reform+supporters are having. I’m scared of what the actual point of it all is - what’s the endgame? And what’s the solution? Why is no one protesting/rising up from the other way? Do people generally agree with all this?

I’m in no way a minority (white, female, 30s), I’m not super left, I have one little boy and I’m so scared for his future. I don’t want to live somewhere so intolerant with this constant atmosphere of distrust and something getting ready to blow.

What’s the general consensus? Is this what the people of the U.K. want?

Well the issue wasn’t the ethnic shops it was the closure of the shops which serviced my needs due to many of their customers leaving the area.

It was the lack of integration that was the issue. My son was in a class where no one would talk to him because he wasn’t part of their community. So yes he is a lot happier in an area where he isn’t excluded because of the colour of his skin, what do you find so objectionable about a child not being excluded because of their race and skin colour?

OK, I'm just going to say it.

One of the big issues we face in addressing these types of issues is the proclivity of white middle class liberals to pussyfoot around the issue due to absolute terror of being seen as non-PC/intolerant.

As a non-white British woman raised to western values and not being at all religious, I don't feel I have anything in common with the types of individuals we see committing these crimes - they are nothing like my partner, my male family members, or any of the men I know. The only similarity I share is not having white skin.

Yet, so many white woke types won't address these crimes for fear of offending people like myself, which is absurd because I have nothing in common with the perpetrators.

Obviously, it's very difficult to have these types of discussion in a non-anonymous fashion (at work etc) but the irony of having them online is that you get some prat trying to lecture you about intolerance and the knock on effect on innocent ethnic people (presumably meaning people like myself). I can only assume that some of them think I share some kind of cultural affiliation with the perpetrators which I mostly don't - granted, it would be different if I was a practicing Muslim but it's not the religion itself so much as the culture in many Islamic countries that's the issue. Western Muslims aren't indulging in mass public sexual assaults.

Groups like the BNP will always find an excuse to be racist and you'd hope that any rational person would be able to differentiate between the types of people that enjoy molesting women and normal people of an ethnic background. Anybody that can't isn't going to feature in my decision making, especially when innocent WAG are the ones that will suffer.

End of the day, I'm not one to sit by and dismiss the sexual assault/rape of thousands of women and girls for fear of riling up idiots. Not least because one of the main reasons that people get sucked into hateful ideologies is because they feel nothing is being done. That's why it irks me when people who have no skin in the game are too afraid to speak up and actively try and silence those that are.

And before somebody tells me that I 'don't write like who I claim to be', I've always been very good at reading and writing. I had a reading age of 16 before I was ten and wanted to be a journalist for years which is what my degree was based around.

And as a non-white woman that likes to drink alcohol, wear a bikini, and has a long term partner of white Scottish origin I'm under no allusions that the type of men so many are afraid to challenge would absolutely not allow me any of the aforementioned freedoms if given their way.

Foreign nationals make up 12% of the England & Wales prison population, but account for 18% of the total England & Wales population.

”A more recent, ad hoc estimate by the ONS indicated that, as of June 2023, there were around 11.4 million non-UK-born residents of England and Wales, including 3.4 million EU-born and 8.0 million non-EU born. This was equivalent to around 18% of the England and Wales population.” - ONS Migration Statistics, Research briefing, Published Monday, 02 December, 2024

So the recent media publications of “foreign nationals are 3x more likely to be arrested” is click bait. Because it is well researched that foreign nationals & ethnic minorities are more likely to be arrested while innocent. What matters is conviction rates and even then, there is evidence the justice system is institutionally biased against ethnic minorities and foreign nationals leading to a higher rate of miscarriages of justice among these groups.

I'm not one to sit by and dismiss the sexual assault/rape of thousands of women and girls for fear of riling up idiots.

The dismissal by the police of the female victims was as much, if not more to do with classism and sexism against poor working class girls & girls in foster care as it was about being afraid of being called a racist. Perhaps you need to read the autobiographies of the survivors and their families. BNP and the like are being opportunists by saying it was all about the ethnicity of certain gangs, but conveniently not saying much about the biggest “gang” operating at the time with far more victims- the church.

"Immigrants" covers a huge variety of people, in the UK for various reasons. Could be everything from skilled professionals to Albanian gangsters really.

Yeah, so do British born- everything from skilled professionals to gangsters.

You appear to be talking about Rotherham.

What about the 1200 sexual assaults on NYE 2016 in Germany? Not just the (eventually) well publicised ones in Cologne, but also the ones in Hamburg, Stuttgart, Bielefeld, Dortmund, and Dusseldorf. All on the same night. And later events in Leipzig, Freiburg, Wolfhagen, Darmstadt, and Berlin?

And the 40 teenage girls assaulted at the music festival in Stockholm. And the other assaults in Helsinki, Zurich, Salzburg, and Kalmar?

All following a similar format. Any thoughts on them? Fake news?

In the U.K. do we tend to believe girls and women when they say any man or many men have raped them? No, we do not.

So the idea that the only or primary reason these girls (and I am saying girls because these were almost all underage minors, not adult women) were not believed was because they were raped by non-white British or foreign nationals and the police were afraid of being called racists is risible nonsense.

Like white British rapists are oh so likely to go straight to prison because their victims are so often believed by the police.

We are usually not believed. Working class and/or being an ethnic minority reduces this even further.

I was referring to Rotherham et al, but back to music festivals and large city events, sexual assaults and rapes in those sorts of numbers proportionate to attendance levels have been common all along in Europe. Prior to any “mass migration”

None of it is fake news, it’s only made the news because of the centuries old racist trope of fearing the defilement of European (our) women by foreign men.

The police have already stated it was due to the fear of escalating racial tensions that they didn't act.

There are no recent incidents of huge groups of western men sexually assaulting hundreds of women in a single night. There are many cases of non-white men and asylum seekers engaging in large scale sexual assaults.

This isn't an opinion or a claim. It's verifiable fact.

I was referring to Rotherham et al, but back to music festivals and large city events, sexual assaults and rapes in those sorts of numbers proportionate to attendance levels have been common all along in Europe

You're making the same error/evasion in appraising the specific incidents referred to and handwaving them away as you are with the grooming gangs.

Cologne

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/07/10/leaked-document-says-2000-men-allegedly-assaulted-1200-german-women-on-new-years-eve/?hpid=hphp-more-top-stories-22_germany-0840pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory

SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice
Foreign nationals make up 12% of the England & Wales prison population, but account for 18% of the total England & Wales population...
there were around 11.4 million non-UK-born residents of England and Wales

I don't think you are measuring the same thing - 'non-UK born' doesn't mean they haven't acquired British citizenship now.

Well, yeah the police have said that as their excuse, but then you are simply proving my point by not believing the autobiographies of the survivors or by not bothering to even read their side of the story as to what the police said and did while dismissing them.

There are no recent incidents of huge groups of western men sexually assaulting hundreds of women in a single night.

Well, yes there are, they just weren’t recorded in the West in a way that made it seem like a conspiracy. Because raping your “own” women isn’t news, it’s daily life. 192 women report a rape to the police EVERY DAY in the U.K….add on the fact that most rapes are not reported and rape isn’t the only form of sexual assault then yes we can safely say that western men are sexually assaulting hundreds of women in a single night, every night.

For where it is recorded with the appropriate measure of xenophobic horror that groups of western men have raped hundreds of women in a single night, you have to look outside the west.

Only if you want to put the fear of the migrant into your populace would you go about totting up how many of the hundreds of rapes & sexual assaults reported every day were not by western men.

I checked, it says “This does not include dual nationals where one nationality is British”

There is no error. Mass sexual assault/rapes at large events, especially music festivals is not new. It is not linked to migration.

Sounds to me like you are hand waving away the reality of VAWG that has long existed here.

This?

6.0 million people were living in the UK who had the nationality of a different country (9% of the total population). This does not include dual nationals where one nationality is British.

In full:
”The latest ONS population estimates for the whole of the UK suggest that, in the year ending June 2021, there were:

• 6.0 million people were living in the UK who had the nationality of a different country (9% of the total population). This does not include dual nationals where one nationality is British.
• 3.4 million EU nationals (excluding UK) were living in the UK

A more recent, ad hoc estimate by the ON indicated that, as of June 2023, there were around 11.4 million non-UK-born residents of England and Wales, including 3.4 million EU-born and 8.0 million non-EU born. This was equivalent to around 18% of the England and Wales population.”

9.4m in 2021, the 2023 more recent estimate done the same way totalled up 11.4m

They aren’t going to change their methodology between census and update.

You're talking nonsense, and denying the reality of events which are well documented, with whataboutery about isolated incidences of sexual assault by people not linked to each other @SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice - completely misrepresenting what happened to those young women in Cologne and across Germany. You should be ashamed.

The pretty Christmas market and medieval setting may look idyllic, but at Christmas and New Year the area around Cologne Cathedral is a notorious danger zone when it comes to pickpockets and theft.
Now the sexual harassment, and in one case rape, of dozens of women has shocked Germany.
What is particularly disturbing is that the attacks appear to have been organised. Around 1,000 young men arrived in large groups, seemingly with the specific intention of carrying out attacks on women.
Police in Hamburg are now reporting similar incidents on New Year's Eve in the party area of St Pauli. One politician says this is just the tip of the iceberg.

www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35231046.amp

If people like you continue to misrepresent, obfuscate and minimise sexual violence against women and girls which has race/culture elements you're leaving an open goal for the far right.

In 2021, 43% of foreign-born residents in England and Wales said they were UK citizens. Presumably the foreign nationals in prison are not UK citizens though.

Excellent post.

I'm afraid of this too. RR is tanking the economy already with her anti growth policies. I hate the way she targets the elderly withholding their WFA, now she's targeted the disabled who will not get the £750 money back on their first motability car.

No. I have stated every time that all the events in the news did happen. What is going on is you are denying the reality of other events that have also happened but were not found newsworthy because the men were not considered to be foreign.

I haven’t misrepresented Cologne because I haven’t said shit about Cologne other than to agree, yes it happened.

I have nothing to be ashamed of.

"There's no critical thinking anymore" says the woman who started this thread moaning because a valid political party she personally didn't agree with was allowed to speak.

If you follow the link and download the xls file showing the raw data they calculated the numbers from, it shows that British nationals are tallied in a seperate column. There are 4 columns, All nationalities, British nationality, EU foreign nationals, nonEU foreign nationals. Anyone who is dual with British goes in the British column.

The 43% you are referring to fall under the British nationality.

The confusion is that the prison service uses “foreign national offender” to refer to prisoners who do not have British nationality, whereas the ONS counts migrants that do not have British nationality as “foreign born” and then in the notes exclude anyone with dual nationality that includes British.