Absolutely shit scared about the future in the UK?

[JDNCh]

Name changed - I’m genuinely terrified by the hate, division and atmosphere here right now, online and spilling over on the ‘the real world’. I’m scared by how quickly things are changing, and just how much influence the US/Elon Musk/Reform+supporters are having. I’m scared of what the actual point of it all is - what’s the endgame? And what’s the solution? Why is no one protesting/rising up from the other way? Do people generally agree with all this?

I’m in no way a minority (white, female, 30s), I’m not super left, I have one little boy and I’m so scared for his future. I don’t want to live somewhere so intolerant with this constant atmosphere of distrust and something getting ready to blow.

What’s the general consensus? Is this what the people of the U.K. want?

It is bemusing. Almost as if for some reason everybody else that came in with them is an issue - except them of course.

(And my cleaner definitely did not arrived in 2001. She would have been a child.)

I saw that. It’s laughable - although amazingly Farage comes out looking the better of the two while Apartheid Clyde is an adult man acting like a teenaged boy.

It’s like a weird Black Mirror story!

I should attend. Even if just to show the racists that they are not the majority. It was heartening to see the anti-riot protests earlier on this year albeit tiny in number.

Apartheid Clyde

This is pathetic, he left South Africa as a teen.

Where is the irony in that?

And?

What about the Jewish people who attend those marches? Do you think somehow just did not notice?

I assume you wrote this before Elon Musk stated that Reform should replace Nigel Farage as leader 😂 He is pumping a lot of money into the party to reshape the UK to how he wants it, so by virtue of this, what he says will carry weight.

He’s extremely powerful and wealthy. He has an unelected hold on the US government, owns a social media platform and has an appetite for stirring up conflict in other countries. I would not be dismissing him so readily…. Although I am curious to how Reform supporters will react. A foreigner telling them what to do (cue Brexit) or the right kind of foreigner who will give them what they want?

Why is she not aware of it yet?

Let me guess, you're going to keep using her until you've got another cleaner lined up and you're actually quite happy to have a 'racist' in your home if it means you don't have to clean your own shower tray?

Because I have not announced it - I just haven’t arranged for her to come again.

The hard on so many people have for Leon Musk, Reform voters won’t care.

A non-white male intimidating a white female MP and vandalising her office - for a cause thousands of miles away seemed ironic to me in the circumstances.

How though? And why are his and her race relevant to the story?

You think him vandalising her office was racially motivated as opposed to political?

Reading back my posts does make me feel uncomfortable tbh as I genuinely don't have an issue with anybody of any ethnicity/religion etc. Well, not specifically based on those factors alone. However, I think it's quite clear that we've experienced a rise in certain types of crimes that were already fairly common in other countries and it's unsurprising when you consider the increased levels of immigration we've experienced from men from said cultures

Sorry but I'm not denying that mass sexual assault of women in Egypt didn't take place. My issue is with the way the story has been told. I'm just pointing out that people linked these politically motivated sexual assaults in Egypt with the assaults in Germany because they specifically wanted to demonise newly arrived refugees (who were mainly from Syria and weren't actually widely involved in these assaults) . These people have an agenda. They want us to believe that armies of men who are a danger to women are coming from the Middle East. I would be very wary of this argument or any argument that demonises any one group of people.

I don't believe that people in reform, or trump or anyone else who demonises groups of people like this really care about women's rights. They are using issues like this as a platform to legitimise discrimination against refugees basically.

Studies show that In the wake of high profile incidents like this, physical and verbal abuse increases towards mainly Muslim women who are more identifiable. And we should stand shoulder to shoulder with all women to say this is unacceptable.

I would like to countries to undertake throughout research and decisive action to ensure that sexual assault and very abuse towards women is dealt with in a way that is impactful and is based on fact and has the issue of safety of women at it's heart - not the "othering" of one group.

I'm just pointing out that people linked these politically motivated sexual assaults in Egypt with the assaults in Germany because they specifically wanted to demonise newly arrived refugees (who were mainly from Syria and weren't actually widely involved in these assaults) . These people have an agenda. They want us to believe that armies of men who are a danger to women are coming from the Middle East. I would be very wary of this argument or any argument that demonises any one group of people.

I'm not sure what you're saying. The assaults were carried out by men from the Middle East and North Africa. Mass public assaults. That is not in dispute.

I'd say that the men carrying out the assaults amply demonstrated by themselves that large-scale migration from the region would present a risk to women and girls.

Thanks so much - that’s a great idea. I think you’ve hit exactly how I feel too. I hate this first name terms, Tommy, Nigel, Elon - it’s like there is no critical thinking anymore, just a desperation to align yourself with the person you perceive to be on top at any cost. Social media has a lot to answer for in the breakdown of relationships to the point people see these men as almost their mates or reality TV celebrities with zero understanding of the impact they could have on us day to day. I’m scared by how easily manipulated people seem to be.

Why is race relevant to the anti-racism protest in her constituency, the pro-Gaza attack on her office and non-Western attitudes towards women discussed up thread? You've got me there.

I agree with you, it's terrifying.

The far right have always been with us, but now it looks like they are being bank rolled. That's the frightening part. The speed that the far right took over Germany in the 1930's should be a salutary lesson here.

Musk has been sticking his oar in in Europe for a while now. The power he holds is illustrated by how quickly he dismisses Farage because he disagrees with him over Tommy Robinson.

@SallyWD

I find it very, very frightening. I feel like we're sleepwalking into something terrible. I feel like people can't see what's happening. They just get riled up by what Tommy Robinson/Elon Misk etc say abd they don't see the big picture.
On a positive note, I do believe there are enough people that can see through it. They can see what's happening and they won't accept us sleepwalking into fascism.

Yes. Sleepwalking into fascism is a fair fear. During the start the pandemic people on my neighbourhood what's app were wondering why they didn't send in the army to deal with the teenage boys who were congregating around the corner shop. The army ? With guns or tanks to deal with some 15 year old boys who were merely hanging around outside?

I just thought how easily people give up their freedoms when they are afraid.

Similar now with refugees or migrants. They want to make us feel so afraid that we can justify what happens to these people.

Why is race relevant to the story of a politically motivated act of vandalism?

Also where did you see he is non-white? I looked up the CCTV images and he doesn’t look particularly non-white:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cyjjjd78ne3o.amp

Do you have any evidence this was racially motivated? If not why is the fact this happened “ironic” in light of an anti-racism protest?

And what does “non-western attitudes towards women have to do with the price of milk”

You think her office was vandalised because she’s a white woman?

*I'm not sure what you're saying. The assaults were carried out by men from the Middle East and North Africa. Mass public assaults. That is not in dispute.

I'd say that the men carrying out the assaults amply demonstrated by themselves that large-scale migration from the region would present a risk to women and girls*

But sexual assault is not "imported" . We have problem with this in the west anyway. I don't think Trump, Reform or Musk have the answer to this. The rights of women are not at the heart of their actions. They just want to demonise refugees who make up a small percentage of immigration generally.

It's quite possible for both to be true. There can be problematic male attitudes towards women in some cultures and people can also use this to further their own agendas, like how some hard right conservative/Christian groups in America were aligning with GC feminist views because it fitted their traditionalist agenda as opposed to them actually caring about the children involved.

I do think there is a link sadly. These mob sexual assaults that have been happening for decades in places like Egypt are a relatively new thing in Europe and the men perpetrating them are almost exclusively from the types of country/culture where these things have already been happening for years.

I used Egypt as an example but the study I posted earlier in this thread surveyed thousands of men from four similar countries and found that a large proportion admitted to having sexually harassed women in public with one of the reasons being that it's 'fun'. Between 80-90% of women there have been sexually harassed compared to the 'one in four' or whatever it is here, and that rises to 99% of foreign women visiting these countries. I think it's hard to deny there's an issue.

It is unfortunate that there has been a backlash but the blame should lie with the perpetrators rather than those that seek to highlight the problem. In a similar way to how male violence makes men look bad, Islamic misogyny make Islam look bad. And of course it's still male violence but it's a particularly grievous subset that can't really be compared to things like wolf whistling. Honour killings, forced/child marriages, FGM, etc, are another part of this which I haven't been touched on and these aren't western practices.

I think her office was vandalised because she is a woman. Several female MPs were similarly targeted by pro-Gaza supporters prior to the general election - Shabana Mahmood needed an armed police guard.

And no doubt religious/cultural beliefs are part of the reason that many of the women feel unable to speak up. There was a thread only a few days ago from a Muslim woman who couldn't escape her abusive husband because he was demanding that she buy her way out of the marriage as is the custom. Without doing that she wouldn't be able to remarry a practising Muslim and would potentially have been socially ostracised.